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Harness & Greyhounds

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Why is that JJ
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    AFL Footy Final Friday Night I'm assuming?

    Chariotsonfire, freodockers, VillageKid likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Be interesting to see the turnover.
    Biggest turnover I ever saw in Kal was when Pinjarra gave them a Monday slot.
    +1 -1
  • jumjum    3,581 posts
    JayJay said:

    GP Friday (York Cup) is now a day meet starting at 10.00am. Cracking race.

    Great move this, Throw open the gates and let the public cruise through and look at the racing product on offer. I think there will be a decent crowd there too from about 2 o'clock on wards. 

    freodockers, VillageKid likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • KTQKTQ    322 posts
    First 3 races at GP tonight would have finished in barrier order if not for one meddling horse
    +1 -1
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    Jay Jay a Jack Jones played 21 games at Swan Districts from 1937 to 1940. Is that your man?
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    No Chariots, Jack wasn't a footballer, hailed from Talbot Brook, worked with Clydesdales as a kid for his Dad, who was a road maker with the York Roads Board. Jack was captured on Crete by the Germans en route to a POW camp for the rest of the war in 1940 and was liberated by the Yanks in may 1945. Prior to the war, he worked for Cliff Clarke. Took out a trainers license in 1948, first horse was Black Lee who won 10 in town. I don't know when you started fielding but some of his good ones were Dals Echo, Radiant Lee, Whitedale, Foreign Legion, Minton Hall was a standout, Malcolms Prince, Beau Collette and in the 70's Royal Vance. Then he had that enormous race smash at Wagin on Redress and it was 3 or 4 years before he could train again, he had to re-learn how to walk again. Gleaming was the first horse he trained after that followed by Terre, Lady Be Cool and co. Some of those names may be familiar to you.

    VillageKid, Chariotsonfire likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    Remember them from Foreign Legion on and of course I was in the middle of the Gleaming plunge.

    JayJay likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Jack and his wife were on holidays in Spain on May 5th, 1978.  I recall having to make a "trunk" call about 2 or 3 in the morning to tell them the result and that they could afford an extra tumbler of Sangria. The Hotel receptionist didn't speak English and I don't speak Spanish....it was fun ......pass on message...."El Triumpho, Muchos dinero for Signor Jones".....
    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    “Trunk Call” geez JJ haven’t heard that one for years.
    Good name for a horse.
    +1 -1
  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    Another lockie wheeler today which altered the result. they ran 1.50.3 at Wagga race 9. Horse that was in this years miracle mile Ignatius should have won last half was  53.9. Stablemate wins. Ignatius was still powering home  on the line---------.Ignatius  L/W.  at the 400m  mark After  they ran 26.6.from 800m to the 400M.
    Marko--fast track?
    +1 -1
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    703 posts
    Bunbury best bet race 8 no 2
    Best each way race 1 no 3
    Best Roughy race 6 no 9

    cisco, freodockers likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • KTQKTQ    322 posts
    Ok first of all, people bag out GP for having a leaders bias and having no sprint lane but just look at Bunbury results last night. Secondly is it me or is GP not on Sky1 right now? What is going on? I somehow have missed 2 races now of the 2 Ive tuned in to watch
    +1 -1
  • KTQKTQ    322 posts
    How did harness racing get started in WA/Australia? Is Alan Parker on here for a quick history lesson?

    We have an old colonial line that only goes back to about 1927 in WA (2 gens further in NSW) but the stallion lines back then were imported and trace to Darley Arabian in the early 1700s.

    It got me wondering when harness racing became a thing in Oz and whether they shipped a lot of horses internationally or interstate to race or breed.

    In the early 1900s were they an isolated breed or were they a mixed breed with people serving whatever breed mare they had with standardbred stallions? It seems you can trace sires back centuries but mares only decades so I assume that "Dorothy" was not a standardbred at all but a bit of a mongrel
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    I think....don't quote me... but I think the first "trotters" in WA were Norfolk trotters imported from the UK....a stallion called Bay Shales was really influential pre-1900. Big heavy horses that trotted as their natural gate that competed at the Royal Show.......which was for the landed gentry, a very prestigious event. Therefore, one upmanship, being second nature to the colonial snobs of the colony, came to the fore with horses being imported from the eastern states (by Childe Harold and the like) to add some "go fast" to their scrubbers. I think the WATA formed around 1910, racing at the Showgrounds, and a horse of unknown pedigree named Big Ben may have been the first official "standardbred" performer after he trotted a sub 2.30 mile. They also raced at Belmont Park and I read in Cockrams book that a mare called Princess Huon won the first race conducted there. They started racing at the WACA in 1913 (lights came a bit later) but by then, some well bred NZ horses were being imported...Kola Girl and Lord Derby for example, both Cup winners and Kola Girl a Hall of Fame mare....and away it went from there with some fairly inauspicious "mongrel" types with a fair smattering of throroughbred and mixed blood mares, many from rural areas,  being put across some decent imported stallions.
    For example, 3 that I have actually researched....Radiant Oro, dual pacing cup winner, super horse, his dam line as a standardbred cuts out to "unknown" in 1905, Pyramus a grand mare,  local bred Pacing Cup winner, her dam line goes back to a Norfolk trotter called Fusilier in the 1880's....and the greatest genetic fluke of all, Beau Don, absolute glamour horse of the 1950's, has an appalling pedigree with a dam line back to the hardly heard of Nellie Bronte in 1920. Nellies grand sire was King Of Bronte who shuffled around to take a personal best mile of 4 minutes 23 seconds.....not a typo, 4.23. Herb Elliott would have given him windburn yet after putting the dam line to Don Sebastian, hardlt the worlds greatest sire of all time (and admittedly not the worst), Mr Carter, a farmer from Tammin, found himself with best horse of the decade in the champion Beau Don. Many influential breeders over the journey of course, including the influential and controversial Norm Craven who bred hundreds of horses to the benefit of the breed.

    Markovina, VillageKid likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,328 posts
    You mention Lord Derby- where does Globe Derby ( not the track )  fit into it- i had a book ( many years ago lost ) and it had all the famous stallions going way back 

    I might have these completely wrong - just going from my memory  but Aachen was that one of them - Bon Adios - Bayle Foyle - im just plucking things from my distant memory - - but the book ( with great pictures as well ) went through all the classic stallions - the history of it all - and their offspring . Book im talking about - probably published in mid to late 70s
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    edited September 2021
    Globe Derby (Mambrino Derby x Spring Heel) foaled at Bathurst 1910.  Sold as a yearling for 25 quid, remarkably changed hands 4 times before he raced, finally for an eye watering 375 pounds. A champion race horse, he was the most influential sire for multiple decades....315 winners and a sire of sires.....Van Derby, Robert Derby, Springfield Globe (Sire of Aachen)....and they the sires of sires ....Lawn Derby, Ribands, Avian Derby, Logan Derby....who sired Johnny Globe who sired Lordship. In fact, many still aspire to having Lordship in their mares pedigree. Simply the most influential horse of his time and beyond.
    I think the book you are after is Ron Jenkins "Great Trotters" 250 famous Harness Horses, which as time goes by, has been super-ceded by a veritable plethora of modern day champs but remains a great historical book.
    Lord Derby was a 1907 foal by Rothschild out of Norice, the down under beginning of the great Dairy Maid family.....as in Mount Eden. I even had a Dairy Maid descendant (Neighlor hahaha...fancy mentioning him in the same breath as Mount Eden). Incidentally, Norice was by Charles Derby who was the great grandsire of Globe Derby.

    VillageKid, Markovina likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    Lewis Hamilton and Verstappen ran into each other in the Italian Grand Prix. That could well have happened at GP albeit that they raced a few years apart.
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    There has been a Senna, a Mansell, a couple of Brabhams, a Webber and of course, most recently a Ricciardo that I can recall. Also an Andretti I think.
    +1 -1
  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    There's been a few Suvaljko's as well but Emily
    is low flying who chalked up her 100th
    GP.success tonight

    curmudgeon, VillageKid, cisco likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,328 posts
    At lunchtime - just watched a few of the Redcliffe replays today

    This morning looking at the form - Race 2 - i was keen to take on the odds on fave - however the video replays i watched of the main dangers wernt impressive enough - so i didnt 

    The race is well worth a watch - youve got the $1.25 Misty Creek fave - Lola Weidamen - im not into horses being hooked and all that nonsense - however  if that drive doesnt get 6-8 or even 12 weeks suspension - then something is wrong 

    It did race very untractably - but you be the judge - it only got beaten a half head - but it got beat  if it was back in  the day with big on course crowds - well they would be still booing now - and she would need a police escort to get off the course 
    +1 -1
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    Subject to approval by the stewards a sprint lane will be in use at Northam tomorrow night.

    Decision to proceed will be made after the trials so early shoppers beware as driving tactics could change.
    +1 -1
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Chariotsonfire said:

    Subject to approval by the stewards a sprint lane will be in use at Northam tomorrow night.


    Decision to proceed will be made after the trials so early shoppers beware as driving tactics could change.
    Sprint Lane is 169.1 m long & 2.5 m wide on the 825m Burwood Park circuit. 
    +1 -1
  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    Surely not going to make a decision after early betting markets have opened. Better off making the assessment for the following meeting---then.no squealers
    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    No betting markets on TABTouch.
    Nothing for GP however if you want to bet on races Belmont Saturday no problems go for it.
    Another great example of RWWA and an even playing field.
    Distribution on turnover however you get 720 less days to bet on the other two codes.
    Vic and NSW displayed as per STG post, just rubs salt further into the wound.
    +1 -1
  • KTQKTQ    322 posts
    JayJay said:

    I think....don't quote me... but I think the first "trotters" in WA were Norfolk trotters imported from the UK....a stallion called Bay Shales was really influential pre-1900. Big heavy horses that trotted as their natural gate that competed at the Royal Show.......which was for the landed gentry, a very prestigious event. Therefore, one upmanship, being second nature to the colonial snobs of the colony, came to the fore with horses being imported from the eastern states (by Childe Harold and the like) to add some "go fast" to their scrubbers. I think the WATA formed around 1910, racing at the Showgrounds, and a horse of unknown pedigree named Big Ben may have been the first official "standardbred" performer after he trotted a sub 2.30 mile. They also raced at Belmont Park and I read in Cockrams book that a mare called Princess Huon won the first race conducted there. They started racing at the WACA in 1913 (lights came a bit later) but by then, some well bred NZ horses were being imported...Kola Girl and Lord Derby for example, both Cup winners and Kola Girl a Hall of Fame mare....and away it went from there with some fairly inauspicious "mongrel" types with a fair smattering of throroughbred and mixed blood mares, many from rural areas,  being put across some decent imported stallions.
    For example, 3 that I have actually researched....Radiant Oro, dual pacing cup winner, super horse, his dam line as a standardbred cuts out to "unknown" in 1905, Pyramus a grand mare,  local bred Pacing Cup winner, her dam line goes back to a Norfolk trotter called Fusilier in the 1880's....and the greatest genetic fluke of all, Beau Don, absolute glamour horse of the 1950's, has an appalling pedigree with a dam line back to the hardly heard of Nellie Bronte in 1920. Nellies grand sire was King Of Bronte who shuffled around to take a personal best mile of 4 minutes 23 seconds.....not a typo, 4.23. Herb Elliott would have given him windburn yet after putting the dam line to Don Sebastian, hardlt the worlds greatest sire of all time (and admittedly not the worst), Mr Carter, a farmer from Tammin, found himself with best horse of the decade in the champion Beau Don. Many influential breeders over the journey of course, including the influential and controversial Norm Craven who bred hundreds of horses to the benefit of the breed.

    Ive looked through a random selection of horses from race results (click a horse and click back through progeny until they switch to NZ/US import then give up... lol very scientific) and some lines go back pre 1900 but others stop. Would you breed a mongrel (forgive me, I love this word haha) to some famous sire but also HOW do you even get the opportunity?

    Its interesting that NZ bloodlines were so influential so so many years ago - is THAT why theyre so good now?

    Would having some influential bloodline like those you mentioned affect horses nowadays or has it been been bred out?

    Ps 2020s olympians would give windburn to King of Bronte

    Pps. Apologies to all for my stupid drunken post the other week. Too much wine, too excited, too much pride for her but also previous frustration at tough barriers/bad luck for My Prayer.
    +1 -1
  • KTQKTQ    322 posts
    freodockers said:

    No betting markets on TABTouch.
    Nothing for GP however if you want to bet on races Belmont Saturday no problems go for it.
    Another great example of RWWA and an even playing field.
    Distribution on turnover however you get 720 less days to bet on the other two codes.
    Vic and NSW displayed as per STG post, just rubs salt further into the wound.


    I brought this up at the outreach sessions and they made up some excuse for it. I wish I could remember what they said. Maybe it was being competitive with other agencies and not losing money by going to market too early??? That could be wrong but the answer made me feel like an idiot, like it is clearly obvious why they wouldnt put up harness markets early ... but it didnt actually answer why they dont when our figures are down :(

    Please everyone, I beg of you, make sure you go to future RWWA outreach sessions with a list of questions in tow and a list of secondary questions to answers they may provide.

    VillageKid, freodockers likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Might be akin to trying to breathe life back into a beached whale that has been stranded on the beach for a week. Eastern States trainer advertising on Facebook last night and this morning for WA horses with a NR of less than 60, so expect another drop in the horse population for those provincial meetings as another truckload heads off over the Nullabor. Starting to think what is the point. the NBM has had 3 years plus and has been an absolute disaster.
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Chariotsonfire said:

    Lewis Hamilton and Verstappen ran into each other in the Italian Grand Prix. That could well have happened at GP albeit that they raced a few years apart.

    Vettel won at the Meadowlands today in 1.48.3....as did old favourite Patrick The Piranha going 1.48.4 with a storming come from behind debut win.

    Chariotsonfire likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    edited September 2021
    Expecting some turnover records to be blown sky high at Narrogin Friday night with only  2 fields out of the six races paying 1,2 and 3. 
    +1 -1
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