Regional Championships

TheDiva · November 2017

from the wagin.wa.gov.au website...

maybe someone needs to tell Wagin they're not in the Great Southern?

Welcome To The Shire Of Wagin

Wagin is ideally located in the heart of the Great Southern 228 kms south east of Perth and is the home of the Giant Ram and Woolorama. The town possesses excellent educational, medical, recreational and shopping facilities and a strong and vibrant community.

carey · November 2017

the reason it is unfair is because one is provincial 2 and the other is provincial 1
if she can only start at northam then she is competing against the city trainers.
albany is only p2 trainers where most of her racing is done.

it is patently unfair(not just to her) that you have restrictions, when the regional races(befroe the final) are not completly equal and they're not.

the northam are bunbury races for this championship are metro scaled races, the geraldton and albany are not.
they are completely different types of races, and maybe that's what the handicappers are trying to hide by calling albany and geraldton metro scaled when they most certainly are not.

no skin off my nose because i don't have a stake in it, but it is blatanlty obvious that it is unfair.

Fastmoney · November 2017

TheDiva said:
from the wagin.wa.gov.au website...

maybe someone needs to tell Wagin they're not in the Great Southern?

Welcome To The Shire Of Wagin
Wagin is ideally located in the heart of the Great Southern 228 kms south east of Perth and is the home of the Giant Ram and Woolorama. The town possesses excellent educational, medical, recreational and shopping facilities and a strong and vibrant community.

Suggest they are trying to align themselves with both the Great Southern and Wheatbelt regions however if that is her case there is no case.

Fastmoney · November 2017

carey said:
the reason it is unfair is because one is provincial 2 and the other is provincial 1
if she can only start at northam then she is competing against the city trainers.
albany is only p2 trainers where most of her racing is done.

it is patently unfair(not just to her) that you have restrictions, when the regional races(befroe the final) are not completly equal and they're not.

the northam are bunbury races for this championship are metro scaled races, the geraldton and albany are not.
they are completely different types of races, and maybe that's what the handicappers are trying to hide by calling albany and geraldton metro scaled when they most certainly are not.

no skin off my nose because i don't have a stake in it, but it is blatanlty obvious that it is unfair.

Your probably on the money that she would prefer not to be against Metro based trainers however the conditions are that horses cannot of won a prime City race so even though they may be stabled in the Metro area they can`t have won a prime City race.

If that is her argument, that she doesn`t like the competition, i would suggest she bypasses the race and looks elsewhere.

It is a single one off event (heat $30k and final)designed to create a race for $100k for horses without a Prime Metro win to be run a race before the Winterbottom.

Can`t see any downside to the race or conditions.

Disappointed I`m missing out on any likes @RIO

carey · November 2017

should a regional championship race allow city trainers?

RIO · November 2017

been out....

This is the copy of the map on a government site....It shows Wagin in the Wheatbelt and The shire of Wagin in both...This is the grey area and this is why I feel - as do one or two others - that common sense should have prevailed. I have been told that Wagin is funded by both government funding regions as it is one of very few split shires..

TheDiva · November 2017

She didnt nominate to dodge the competition... now you're just making it up. She saw in the racing calendar that it was eligible to Great Southern Trainers, and she nominated, believing she is a great Southern Trainer.

As already stated, she does a lot of her racing at Albany and Barker (a lot more than at northam or in town).

If the government website states that Wagin is in the Great Southern.. then you can understand why Angela also might have thought she was a Great Southern Trainer.

Re the government website... you're "suggesting" they're making it up about being part of the Great Southern so it sounds better?

Fastmoney · November 2017

Already posted the Government link which is different to the Shire website(maybe ring them and ask).

The comment about "dodging the competition" was in reference to carey`s post about it being unfair to be drawn against City stables.

@RIO try this link Wheatbelt Region in Profile. which shows the map you posted and a bigger map and makes it clear which region Wagin is in.

RIO · November 2017

:)) :) :)) FM if my or anyone else's opinions upset you I'd be very surprised. I've said it many times i appreciate the good discussions with you and the fact we stick to topic is the best way to learn..

I thought I was doing well not "disliking" some of your comments!!!! ;-)

@The_Bull I sent a note to RWWA about a horse that came into one of the races I was nommed after it was scratched from noms and then accepted in the final field....When I questioned this I was given the explanation that anyone can nominate in that period if there are less than 10 acceptances. Now i'd suggest the RWWA system automatically sends and SMS to all those that have been scratched... as for any others that might want to nominate I have no idea at all how they allocate barriers. I also done see how it is fair that those who have been scratched come back in with the original barrier.....

If I was drawn barrier 6 and 3 inside me were scratched, so I thought - Yep we'll stayin cos we have come into 3, then those 3 all renom in the 30 minute glory window and i'm back out to 6 i'd be **** off. If I then scratched out i'd be financially penalised for scratching after acceptances......Its a silly situation at best, but to let horses renom or nom after noms have closed is a great way to try to get a corrupt race set up for your horse....RWWA totally disagree.

RIO · November 2017

I tried that one and it contradicts the one I looked at!?!?!?!?!? the shire is split between the 2 regions and is funded by both regions to varying degrees on certain projects....If it was set in concrete one way or another I'd be arguing strongly in that direction....But its not.

SOOOOOOO In my opinion it is a grey area and RWWA should have applied common sense to the situation. They didn't. Its too late this year. I hope they have total clarity for next year.

Now you have your final say and we can move on....Or get stuck on the stupidity of the nomming after nomming is closed situation. That one really blew me away!?!?!?! And to a certain degree I hope I am wrong..Haven't tried it yet, but gee i'd be tempted if I could get 2 or 3 suitable for the same race!!!!

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2017

@FM would be an extremely tough opponent to debate against. Not that it worries Diva though..two lads with mutual respect..albeit possibly begrudgingly haha.

Fastmoney · November 2017

RIO said:
I tried that one and it contradicts the one I looked at!?!?!?!?!? the shire is split between the 2 regions and is funded by both regions to varying degrees on certain projects....If it was set in concrete one way or another I'd be arguing strongly in that direction....But its not.

Looks clear to me

Living, working and investing in the Wheatbelt

The Wheatbelt is made up of 42 local government authorities:

Fastmoney · November 2017

Living, working and investing in the Great Southern

The Great Southern region is made up of 11 local government authorities:

Chelsea · November 2017

We had a situation with Dusha Zachistki last year,We were considering nominating for the championships (when the trainer was training from Rowley Road in Oakford )we enquired as to which heat he would be eligible for they said if you are on the left hand side of the road (travelling east)it would be the Metropolitan heat at Northam if you are on the right hand side of the road it would be the South West heat.

jum · November 2017

Chelsea said:
We had a situation with Dusha Zachistki last year,We were considering nominating for the championships (when the trainer was training from Rowley Road in Oakford )we enquired as to which heat he would be eligible for they said if you are on the left hand side of the road (travelling east)it would be the Metropolitan heat at Northam if you are on the right hand side of the road it would be the South West heat.

Looks like they make the rules up as they go.

In my opinion if they are sending her to Northam, no Dramas at all. BUT there should be no metro horses racing in this championship. What is the name of this championship anyway

"Some metro based trainers don`t ever race at Northam but that is the region they have to compete in".

This should not be allowed.

loose_goose · November 2017

Fastmoney said:
Disagree.

If you don`t agree with the concept, change the concept but expecting one trainer to be given preferential treatment, would open a can of worms, with multiple trainers wanting to start their horses at their track of choice.

Nevershowsurprise · November 2017

Fastmoney said:
Living, working and investing in the Great Southern
The Great Southern region is made up of 11 local government authorities:
Albany
Broomehill-Tambellup
Cranbrook
Denmark
Gnowangerup
Jerramungup
Katanning
Kent
Kojonup
Plantagenet
Woodanilling

Jesus Egomaniac much....

carey · November 2017

and now i note that esperance has one of these races on saturday........

PROV A - NO METRO WIN LY(60+) (-1) 62+

....which means it is according to them, a metro 60+ restricted to horses with no metro wins in the last year, the -1 means that it is scaled 1kg stronger, that is, that it supposedly weighted as a metro 62+ rather than a 60+

and yet here we have Cee I Ay with a country rating of 80 given 63kg.
if its metro rating was 80 then fine, but it isn't.

if it was truly a 62+ metro standard then it would be wighted according to its metro rating which would have it around a metro 75 or thereabouts, and would carry about 2.5 kg less.

similar stuff is happening for all these races at the P2 venues this week.

you can't make this stuff up.
and what's more, they get paid for it.
sheesh.

they should only get paid for jobs well done.

Dotard · November 2017

I'm fairly certain that they had posted which shires belonged to which club in the Racing Calendar's conditions for the race.

RIO · November 2017

Dotard said:
I'm fairly certain that they had posted which shires belonged to which club in the Racing Calendar's conditions for the race.

Yep I am too.....but if you have assumed for 20+ years that you live in the Great Southern, you pay track fees to the courses in the Great Southern, your town promotes itself as being in the great southern................then that is where you think you belong and you don't need to go and check.

RWWA have made a ruling and they are right..That is black and white as we play the game based on the rules they make.......However there is grey area over WAGIN...its the only one I know of. And a common sense approach to allow Smith to nominate in one or the other would have been the way to go this year......and advise her that next year she is only allowed to nom in the Wheatbelt....Enforcing and educating is the role that all managers should employ.

I actually reckon you'd have trainers around Northam complaining about her being there if she did nom for Northam!!!!

Anyway our handicapping department is about as useful and helpful as Dracula working for the Red Cross at a Blood donation booth. Yep the bloods coming out but its a waste a time as no one is getting any benefit from it except Dracula....And if you want that explained, the only people who are benefitting from that department at the moment are the people who get paid to be there.

The ratings example above by carey is proof of how intelligent they are. This would be a total concept series developed in the past 2 years, and blind freddie can see that the whole series is rated wrong.....Cant wait to see what magic they weave when the final comes along!!!!

Oh and because of this comment I will now suffer the same fate as what I copped last year. Pathetic bunch of pen pushing, little cry babies

TheDiva · November 2017

Hi Matt,

Great question.

We actually fall under both.

Warm regards

Kirsty Simkins

Executive Assistant

Shire of Wagin

Email: ea@wagin.wa.gov.au

Fastmoney · November 2017

Hi Dean

We received the following inquiry from you:

I
am inquiring about the shire of Wagin and what region it is part of.
The Wagin shire claim they are part of both the Wheatbelt and Great
Southern region. Your map appears to have them as part of the Wheatbelt
region. Can you clarify which region the Shire of Wagin falls under?

The Shire of Wagin forms part of the Wheatbelt Development Commission – see attached link under Schedule 1:

https://www.slp.wa.gov.au/statutes/swans.nsf/(DownloadFiles)/Regional+Development+Commissions+Act+1993.pdf/$file/Regional+Development+Commissions+Act+1993.pdf

Many thanks

Martin

Martin Clifford | Manager
Policy and Strategy
Regional Development
Department of Primary Industries and Regional Development.Level 12, 140 William Street | Perth WA 6000.

TheDiva · November 2017

you dont seem to get it mate... as Rio has explained.. it is covered by both. That is why RWWA probably should have allowed Ang to enter in one or the other.

if you dont get that... then i cant help you I'm sorry.

Im sure if it was one of our leading trainers.. they'd have been allowed to nominate..

Fastmoney · November 2017

I get it.

You, Rio, Angela and the Shire of Wagin think they are in both Regions.

The State Government department, who defines the regions, has Wagin as part of the Wheatbelt.

Make of that what you will.

jum · November 2017

Im gonna grab a beer and keep refreshing this thread.

This is a cracking stuff this, "My Dickks bigger than yours"

:))

<:-P

RIO · November 2017

I'm also surprised you don't get it FM..Its not about a legal line on a map. As stated by Dotard, it was published in the Racing Calendar several editions back what towns were in what region.

Wagin is part of the wheat belt. that is even on the very first map I ever posted. NO discussion.

The discussion is on a bit of common sense being applied over a perception that has been held for over 30 years, and RWWA have refused to accommodate that common sense. Its not totally clear what has been done in the past and the fact you continue down this rock solid path that no-one else in the industry would have believed is surprising.

Good management - totally lacking by many recent acts in the handicapping department in my opinion - would use this scenario as a chance to educate and correct a situation. The very simple way to have dealt with this is to allow Angela to nominate for the Great Southern heat - as the Wheat belt one had been closed off - and to advise her that she will need to nominate in Northam next year.....Or tell her to nominate her home town - as someone else in the race has supposedly done - as Albany...even though she doesn't live there...

In my opinion they have erred in their judgement and treated a long time respected Great Southern trainer appallingly. But I'm really confident RWWA don't give a farque about her as she isn't one of the top 5 money earners.

The very reason this series was put together was for what reason ??????? I'll answer that. To give our hard working Regional Trainers a chance to go to the city with a horse that wouldn't normally get there and have a chance to earn some big dollars.......Yet they deny one of the hardest working trainers in the industry that opportunity!!!

And they want to encourage owners into racing!?!?!?! How the hell does this bloody mindedness help anyone to want to come in to the industry??

Fastmoney · November 2017

RIO said:
I'm also surprised you don't get it FM..Its not about a legal line on a map.

Multiple posts in this thread suggesting otherwise.

In my opinion (and not effected by personal relationships) the RWWA decision seems fair and reasonable to me.

RWWA clearly define the Regions prior to nomination. Any doubt over what region your location is in, contact RWWA for clarification and nominate accordingly.

carey · November 2017

NOTE!!!:
i had alreay had this written but never posted before the last 5 or 6 posts have been put up, so it is not commentary on that!
it's just my studying of the claimed/actual conditions of the races in question.
...........................................................................................................

wherever it is, is secondary in my opinion, to how they are not treating the p2 and the p1 version of these heats equally.

without knowing anything about any of the horses involved, it will almost certainly be won by a horse that qualified at either northam or bunbury.
if it's not, then don't remind me!

what is the point of regional championship when the city trainers can be involved, and the prov 1 races are a higher standard than the the prov 2 races.

RIO · November 2017

Fastmoney said:

RIO said:
I'm also surprised you don't get it FM..Its not about a legal line on a map.
Multiple posts in this thread suggesting otherwise.

In my opinion (and not effected by personal relationships) the RWWA decision seems fair and reasonable to me.

RWWA clearly define the Regions prior to nomination. Any doubt over what region your location is in, contact RWWA for clarification and nominate accordingly.

Its a side issue FM..As Smith and everyone in the industry have assumed for many years that she is a Great Southern Trainer. The maps and boundaries only prove there is a line in the sand, but still confusion even in the very shire itself.....

Due to the perception over many years and held by many people there would be no need for Smith to check to see if her shire is in the great Southern or in The wheatbelt........Then RWWA got bloody minded..

When good management could have dealt with it quickly and easily....

Fastmoney · November 2017

Would also think if she started in the Albany heat and in turn the final, anyone who finished behind her runner, would have a legal claim that her runner was ineligible based on the conditions of the race and would have a claim on prizemoney.

Not sure the cut and paste from the Wagin shire would be grounds to deny the claim.

G'day Punter!

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