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Regional Championships

West Australian Racing
TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
West Australian Racing
I notice Angela Smith has been told she CANNOT nominate a horse for the Albany heat of this race.... because she IS NOT a Great Southern Trainer. 

She trains from her property in Wagin.... which is clearly stated as part of the Great Southern Region. She has supported Albany and Mt Barker racetracks for years. 

Wagin /ˈweɪdʒin/ is a town and shire in the Great Southern region of Western Australia, approximately 225 km south-east of Perth on the Great Southern Highway between Narrogin and Katanning.

From the rules of the Regional Championships page at RWWA: Horses will only be able to compete in the heat associated with the region in which they are trained. The first four finishers in each of the four heats will qualify for the final automatically.

So what gives? Add to this, I believe they have allowed a port hedland trainer nominate a horse for this race. 
+1 -1

Comments

  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    It is another one of RWWA's pigheaded stupid decisions that defy logic. The town of Wagin is just in the wheatbelt area on government zoning maps, but the shire is split over Wheatbelt and Great Southern.
    The easy decision is to allow any trainer in the state that finds them self split between 2 regions to nominate in ONLY 1 of the regional finals.

    But not this mob...Nup Smith is a Wheat belt trainer. So she cant nominate. However a holidaying trainer from up North, we'll accept....

    I wonder if this si coming from the genius who does all the grading and scheduling of races in such good fashion at the moment??

    A disgusting way to treat a Perth Cup winning trainer and one of the hardest working horsewoman in the industry.
    +1 -1
  • jumjum    3,580 posts
    Surely this is a wind up. Where is she to run horses in her region ???? Bunbury or Pinjarra.
    +1 -1
  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    no wind up..been denied a nomination of her horses for the Road To Ascot heat, Sunday at Albany
    +1 -1
  • jumjum    3,580 posts
    :-??
    +1 -1
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    theyve told he she has to nominate for Northam...
    granted, on the government maps, she's right on the border (well, the Wagin town is). Not sure where her property lies in respect to the border... but the key should be : the support she gives the Albany and Barker race clubs... 

    When she is back to Wagin for the season (her base) she races her team predominantly at Barker and Albany. 

    jum likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    Looks like there is some discrepancy over the location of Wagin.

    WA government site has Wagin as part of the Wheatbelt region which would make her horses eligible for the Northam race.

    http://www.drd.wa.gov.au/regions/Pages/Wheatbelt.aspx.
    +1 -1
  • jumjum    3,580 posts
    TheDiva said:

    theyve told he she has to nominate for Northam...

    granted, on the government maps, she's right on the border (well, the Wagin town is). Not sure where her property lies in respect to the border... but the key should be : the support she gives the Albany and Barker race clubs... 

    When she is back to Wagin for the season (her base) she races her team predominantly at Barker and Albany. 
    100% agree
    +1 -1
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    TheDiva said:

    theyve told he she has to nominate for Northam...

    granted, on the government maps, she's right on the border (well, the Wagin town is). Not sure where her property lies in respect to the border... but the key should be : the support she gives the Albany and Barker race clubs... 

    When she is back to Wagin for the season (her base) she races her team predominantly at Barker and Albany. 
    Not sue about "predominantly", her horses have raced in all 5 regions at different times of the year..

    Don`t think "where you race most at a certain time of the year" is a workable criteria.
    +1 -1
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    why not? 
    +1 -1
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    predominantly... last season she had 22 at Barker or Albany out of a total of 48. 
    That was skewed a little as she had a city class horse Corporate larrikin who started 7 times at Ascot. Without him it would have been 22 out of 41 starters. 

    the season before (as far as i can count back) she had 50 at albany or barker out of 68 runners. 

     
    +1 -1
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    If trainers race in multiple regions how do you decide which region they are eligible for? Trainers choice?

    Some metro based trainers don`t ever race at Northam but that is the region they have to compete in.


    +1 -1
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    TheDiva said:

    predominantly... last season she had 22 at Barker or Albany out of a total of 48. 

    That was skewed a little as she had a city class horse Corporate larrikin who started 7 times at Ascot. Without him it would have been 22 out of 41 starters. 

    the season before (as far as i can count back) she had 50 at albany or barker out of 68 runners. 

     
    Last season 106 total starters, 21 Albany/Mt.Barker starters. courtesy Racing and Sports.
    +1 -1
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    when albany barker close down, she goes up north. 
    regardless of any of the stats, i think she's been harshly excluded. 

    RIO likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    edited November 2017
    Disagree.

    If you don`t agree with the concept, change the concept but expecting one trainer to be given preferential treatment, would open a can of worms, with multiple trainers wanting to start their horses at their track of choice.
    +1 -1
  • hashhash    7,495 posts
    Transfer the horse to a new trainer in the “region” that applies while she continues handling the horse, pretty simple solution
    +1 -1
  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    The Wagin area is on the border of Wheatbelt and Great Southern. The shire of Wagin is in both zones and gets funding from both regional areas. 

    She is nominated as Wagin as her home base. Even when racing up north she is considered a Wagin trainer.

    When we have grey areas like this common sense should apply and the trainers should be able to NOMINATE......in only one region.

    When she read the conditions she would automatically assume that she was in the Great Southern as she has assumed for many years. Yes the Town of Wagin is in the Wheatbelt, but the Shire of Wagin is in both Regions.

    RWWA's bloody mindedness on this has cost a respected country trainer the  opportunity to compete. The Northam heat is on Thursday and she cant nominate for this.

    I also feel she has been treated harshly by RWWA. As hers is a classic situation where she is eligible for both. But RWWA have seen to enforce the rule in the direction that no-one would have anticipated... Certainly not Angela..

    PS...the interpretation can be strongly argued for her being in BOTH Regions. Where is the common sense in this situation??
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    i keep out of things i have no knowledge of, but the lady has 707 runs in my entire database.

    324 of them at albany
    162 at mount barker

    486 / 707 = .574

    more than half her starters at these two tracks.

    RIO, jum likes this post.

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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    and... Im sure RWWA change the rules to accomodate trainers all the time. 
    correct me if I'm wrong, but i swear material man was scratched from the Peters this morning... but is now back in the field... 

    It CAN and SHOULD be done. 
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    and again this race is called metro 60+ (scaled 1 stronger supposedly) but they are all country ratings, thus it is weaker for certain sure.
    the litmus test will be to see how the ratings flow through to the final whenever it is held.

    but it is obvious why the industry particapants can't follow what the heck is going on when they do stuff like this.

    RIO likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    TheDiva said:

    and... Im sure RWWA change the rules to accomodate trainers all the time. 

    correct me if I'm wrong, but i swear material man was scratched from the Peters this morning... but is now back in the field... 

    It CAN and SHOULD be done. 
    There is a little know rule here Diva. If a field has less than 10 starters upon final acceptances...YES ACCEPTANCES, not nominations.....Then RWWA allow a 30minute window for ANY horse to be nominated. The horse may have been scratched from initial noms or not even nominated in the first place...

    RWWA advise me it is all above board and no-one has ever abused it....However there are a lot of horses that get scratched out of races.......then are magically in the starting line up....But as said RWWA told me it never gets abused..........BEYOND believable IMO
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  • The_BullThe_Bull    929 posts
    I think you are wrong there Rio. My understanding is that RWWA will call for  reinstatement of scratched horses in a field that drops right away at acceptance time. Don't think you can nominate a horse at that point if you hadn't done so at the time of original nominations. The barrier draw is already done....
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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    RIO said:



    PS...the interpretation can be strongly argued for her being in BOTH Regions. Where is the common sense in this situation??
    Thread appears to be turning into an anti RWWA rant however there isn`t an argument to suggest she is in the Great Southern region. The boundaries of the regions are the shire boundaries.

    Southern side of the Wheatbelt below





    image
    +1 -1
  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    edited November 2017
    Not the map RWWA used. It shows the town in the wheat belt and the Shire in the Great Southern.. Even the Shire admits they re in both regions...that is not up for discussion on the government website.

    RWWA are the managers of this debacle so that is the head that needs to be kicked..
    The_Bull said:

    I think you are wrong there Rio. My understanding is that RWWA will call for  reinstatement of scratched horses in a field that drops right away at acceptance time. Don't think you can nominate a horse at that point if you hadn't done so at the time of original nominations. The barrier draw is already done....

    Have got it in writing...ANY horse can nominate for the race if the numbers are below 10 in that 30 minute window.....Not to say that depending on who it is depends on how it is interpreted??? I was asking in relation to a horse that was re-nominated after it had been scratched...and that was the written response i got. Maybe it is wrong!?!?!?!
    +1 -1
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    carey said:

    i keep out of things i have no knowledge of, but the lady has 707 runs in my entire database.

    324 of them at albany
    162 at mount barker

    486 / 707 = .574

    more than half her starters at these two tracks.

    Last 10 years - 2039 starts

    Albany 482 starts
    Mt. Barker 243 starts

    725 / 2039 = .355

    I would imagine your stats don`t include her multiple non tab starters.
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    The_Bull said:

    I think you are wrong there Rio. My understanding is that RWWA will call for  reinstatement of scratched horses in a field that drops right away at acceptance time. Don't think you can nominate a horse at that point if you hadn't done so at the time of original nominations. The barrier draw is already done....

    my guess is that he was asked to reinstate it, or it would have looked even worse as a G3.
    it's
    scaled 2kg weaker than their normal listed strength of 90+(which is
    already less than the required), and would have been 3.5kg weaker
    without it in.

    The_Bull likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • The_BullThe_Bull    929 posts
    edited November 2017
    I could not see this being correct Rio. Trainers often receive notifications via sms that their scratched horse may be reinstated into a field if numbers are low at final acceptances. But to allow a horse in which had not been in the original nominations would call for a whole new barrier draw wouldn't it?

    +1 -1
  • savethegamesavethegame    3,215 posts
    TheDiva said:

    I notice Angela Smith has been told she CANNOT nominate a horse for the Albany heat of this race.... because she IS NOT a Great Southern Trainer. 


    She trains from her property in Wagin.... which is clearly stated as part of the Great Southern Region. She has supported Albany and Mt Barker racetracks for years. 

    Wagin /ˈweɪdʒin/ is a town and shire in the Great Southern region of Western Australia, approximately 225 km south-east of Perth on the Great Southern Highway between Narrogin and Katanning.

    From the rules of the Regional Championships page at RWWA: Horses will only be able to compete in the heat associated with the region in which they are trained. The first four finishers in each of the four heats will qualify for the final automatically.

    So what gives? Add to this, I believe they have allowed a port hedland trainer nominate a horse for this race. 
    Kalgoorlie horses had to start at mount barker last year not allowed to start at northam in November 13th   2016 horse hellyer 872km  to barker             opposed to 492km to northam don't no if they have changed it this year.
    +1 -1
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    RIO said:

    Not the map RWWA used. It shows the town in the wheat belt and the Shire in the Great Southern
    If her property is in the Great Southern on this 'other" map then she would have a case.

    Not sure what map it would be though, Shires can only be in 1 region.

    And the title of the thread is "Regional Championships" not "I race where most of my starters are at a certain time of year Championships".

    Yet to find anything in this thread that is even half way to a decent argument.

    I would imagine the majority of trainers from Baldivis and Lark Hill would prefer to race at Bunbury than Northam.

    Probably a similar scenario that some would think these trainers are in the Peel Region however the boundary is the boundary of the Mandurah Shire.
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    Fastmoney said:

    carey said:

    i keep out of things i have no knowledge of, but the lady has 707 runs in my entire database.

    324 of them at albany
    162 at mount barker

    486 / 707 = .574

    more than half her starters at these two tracks.

    Last 10 years - 2039 starts

    Albany 482 starts
    Mt. Barker 243 starts

    725 / 2039 = .355

    I would imagine your stats don`t include her multiple non tab starters.
    starts from 11/10/2008 so bit more than 9 years of my records.
    only tab meetings included, and forgot about that, but it's still one hell of a lot of starts at joints where she is not allowed a runner for whatever reason
    are any of the non tab runs is the designated region?


    +1 -1
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    edited November 2017
    carey said:

    Fastmoney said:

    carey said:

    i keep out of things i have no knowledge of, but the lady has 707 runs in my entire database.

    324 of them at albany
    162 at mount barker

    486 / 707 = .574

    more than half her starters at these two tracks.

    Last 10 years - 2039 starts

    Albany 482 starts
    Mt. Barker 243 starts

    725 / 2039 = .355

    I would imagine your stats don`t include her multiple non tab starters.
    starts from 11/10/2008 so bit more than 9 years of my records.
    only tab meetings included, and forgot about that, but it's still one hell of a lot of starts at joints where she is not allowed a runner for whatever reason
    are any of the non tab runs is the designated region?


    Not sure where you race is relevant for the Regional Championships.

    It is based on where your stabled.

    As I`ve mentioned, a trainer based in the Metro area, who has never raced at Northam and may have had 100 starts at Pinjarra/Bunbury can only compete in the Northam Heat not the Bunbury heat
    +1 -1
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