Racing, Gaming & Liquor suspends PUNTA for two week period

TSS · September 2013

Does Punta have any sign up bonuses? Like, match the initial sign up up to $1000. $100 deposit, $200 account balance etc.

TheDiva · September 2013

Not allowed to in this state TSS.

DurkaDurka · October 2013

so how did everyone enjoy the atmosphere with only two bookies on course last saturday?

Its no wonder horses are being plunged in each and every race...how much can two bookies take?

The day everyone realises that going to the track is pointless with no bookie, will be the day it happens and then it might well be too late.

I implore you not to let this issue die. Like Rio says, send an email to the minister. Let your voice be heard.

RWWA have proven to be an incompetent administrator. RGL are their watchdog, whom have not made a change to our betting act in over 30 years. Now, even pushed on the matter, still cant bring about much needed updates to the act.

Perth Racing, well they cant even get the grand final telecast on course for a heavily promoted grand final day.

Stop accepting this mediocrity throughout our industry. have a say.

thefalcon · October 2013

does anybody have the email addresses?

not for the monkeys but the organ grinders.

DurkaDurka · October 2013

http://www.premier.wa.gov.au/Ministers/Terry-Waldron/Pages/Contact-The-Minister.aspx

rio posted further up the thread

bookielover · October 2013

DD

It's incredible to think that at the main city track in an Australian Capital City, there were only two bookies operating at their main Saturday meeting. Had Punta been allowed to operate, there would still only have been 3 which frankly would still have been a terrible turnout.

A Melbourne bookie I know, works in Adelaide at Morphetville on a Saturday, on alternate Saturdays when another Melbourne bookie works there. They currently have 5 local Adelaide based bookies working there. They would have had 7 but two of their bookies bought licenses off two Melbourne rails bookies and they now work in Melbourne. However for various Adelaide Country Cups meetings, those two bookies return to SA to work the meeting.

In this day and age, the various State racing authorities have had the foresight to allow intra state bookmaker licenses.

What we have in the Eastern States and in SA and the NT, is, for example, that bookies working in Melbourne can have dual or triple licenses and can be licensed to work interstate. Outside of SA and NT the bookies can't work at the city tracks, but more and more bookies are travelling from Melbourne to say Grafton for their carnival, and I know three who worked at Hawksbury for the Gold Cup and Newcastle for their recent two day carnival.

Vince Aspinall one of Queenslands biggest bookies who works the Gold Coast meetings is amongst 5 Brisbane bookies that are also licensed to work in NSW.

By doing this, the race clubs, encourage bookmakers to their meetings to call the odds and engender at least some excitement at the track. They understand, that drunken 20 year olds and scantily clad drunken women throwing up all over punters, is not the definition of an exciting day out at the track.

They also understand, that when the course commentator or the presenters at Sky and TVN declare that a horse has been backed for a stack in the ring, every punter in every TAB and sitting at home in front of their computer logged into Tabcorp, is waiting for that information. It is that betting information which is responsible for up to 80% of the win and place turnover on a race, the bulk of that being placed in the last 5 minutes of betting once the betting ring information has been disseminated.

I would love to know how the TAB turnover at a recent Northam meeting which pre-race caller Darren Mcauliffe called a "bookieless" meeting, and apologised for not being able to give punters a lead from the ring, compared with the turnover on Monday, when Peter McCormack worked and Darren was able to give punters some lead.

The authorities in charge of racing in South Australia, who had the courage to close down two city race tracks sell one of them, and funnel the money back into racing, understand that previous regimes who did not encourage bookmakers at the track have a lot to answer for.

My Melbourne bookie mate tells me that the remaining bookies are afforded every comfort being placed in a prime position in the grandstand in year round air-conditioned comfort and that results aside, from a purely satisfying work place, it is a pleasure to work there.

It appears obvious to me, at least, and please feel free to correct if I am wrong, that the bookies who didn't work on Saturday, Punta aside, didn't turn up, because of the cold weather conditions, the poor quality of the fields, which generally reduces the number of chances in a race, and the constant idiotic restrictions placed upon them. Can't offer top fluc, best of the totes etc. In fact I'm surprised that RWWA allow them to set up a board and issue a ticket.

So it all comes back to what virtually all of you are clamouring for. A total change in the people who govern racing in W.A with a particular emphasis on having someone in charge who actually understands that in the first place, bookmakers have to go through the most intense scrutiny to obtain a license, yet are treated as second class citizens,and that due to previous shocking decisions made by people who believe they have a right to rule, the bookies are playing to an ever diminishing audience, and the last thing they need are the obstacles that a short sighted RWWA and RGL place in their way.

At this point in time, there is no bookie in Perth working at the greyhounds, one bookie who works generally only during the Summer months at the trots, and 12 bookies who could work on a Saturday, but only a few of those will work outside of the so called carnival and better meetings. In fact they would rather work at Toodyay, where I'm told 5 worked than Perth.

I know that I highlight the plight of the bookies, but their situation is symptomatic of the general malaise and negative atmosphere that pervades Perth Racing, RWWA and RGL.

Until you have a Government that is prepared to remove the deadwood that inhabits the boards and offices of these institutions, nothing will change.

And if nothing changes, we all know what the end result will be.

bookielover · October 2013

Just one more thing.

If anyone wants to know how a change of administration can revitalise an organisation, we need look no further than the Port Adelaide Football Club.

I'm a Carlton supporter, so this comment is about as unbiased as it can be.

Three years ago, commentators and all of us were saying, who would want to go to that club.

Three years later, a change of Board, a new President with new ideas, a new coach, and you suddenly had players who were going to leave extending their contracts, and players who would never have thought of going to PA, now want to go. matt White from Richmond, being the most recent name mentioned.

If Pa can do it, why can't PR?

RIO · October 2013

I just wrote a whole lot of waffle along the same lines...and deleted it..

We need a lot of change to happen. Whilst we are still getting people to air their opinions - even if negative - it is a sign that we still have people who care about the product..

One of the great truisms in life is

IT IS NEVER TOO LATE TO CHANGE

RGL and RWWA need to embrace this and PR will follow.. Lets not forget that is where the majority of PR's funding comes from, and in this day an age it is a very powerful bargaining chip.

bookielover · October 2013

I'd rather eat a waffle than write it Rio, but sometimes I do both. ;) :D

jonesee · October 2013

Really positive posts and I agree completely with both BOOKIELOVER and RIO but I do have one criticism of the perth bookies that I feel has accelerated their demise. They just spent 10 years or more especially at the country tracks trying to bet punters with 140 or 150 per cent markets. The rest of the betting world was at 110 per cent or better and they just drove any decent sized track punters online. Now its hard to get them back....

Carlosa · October 2013

I just heard a nail being hit on the head!

RIO · October 2013

agree Carlosa, but if we can get 6 bookies to Toodyay for a picnic meeting that is also proof that we still have a place for them... But they need a competitive product to play with as there original market has gone all technology savvy an wont accept a board price only anymore.

bookielover · October 2013

Hi all,

May I strongly suggest that you Google The Punters Show and watch part 3 of an interview with Simon Beazley.

In it, he covers virtually every aspect of what we discuss on here. It goes for half an hour, and is highly relevant not only to Diva and the Perth bookie situation, but also to punters.

TheDiva · October 2013

Here is the relevant part of the punters show:

http://www.puntersshow.com.au/index.php?_a=videos&videoId=650

raconteur · October 2013

I agree with the majority of posters and their post comments - but "How will it change" - if those at the top of - either RGL , RWWA or PR will not move to change the status quo ?

It seems to me that the current Racing Minister is silent ( I will stop short of saying mute) on all aspects of racing and betting - as evidenced by his non commenting throughout the Belmont track issue and the generic replies to letters sent to his dept.

RGL is a typical sedentary Govt. body not flexible enough to deal with a vibrant ever changing industry, RWWA is a quango dominated by Govt. appointed persons with no knowledge and ( it seems ) no regard for the long term viability of that Industry and PR seems to be bound in much of that 'staleness' with agendas which don't seem to fit with the future of the Industry's sustainable metropolitan racing - outside of an associated land development.

So again - How will it change ? and more importantly " What can we do to ensure or force a change?"

TheDiva · October 2013

they pretty much nailed it in that video....if only RGL would watch it

RIO · October 2013

I lightheartedly put up that we have a second race club for the Perth Tracks. So we have the Belmont Race Club and Ascot Race Club, to generate a competitiveness at the front end for the punters and patrons at the two facilities.

Ascot would be a training facilty, Belmont a trial facility - so both clubs would get extra funding from RWWA.

Now that doesn't fix RWWA or RGL, but it would increase the flow of demands to both those associations from two Clubs that are focused on only one function (training or trialling facility). And you'd hope it then created an environment within those departments of proactivity - ie, theyd have to plan for a smooth transitional period to ensure that racing continued unimpeded, and also most importantly it should create a environment of negotiated outcomes..Something that i dont think happens a the moment.

I am certain that PR tells RWWWA what it will do with the grants and funds and RWWA tells PR what it will give them money for and what they want to do it with.. I dont sense that the required amount of negotiated outcomes that should happen, happen when there are no alternatives to talk to and get ideas of best value for spend from.

If we had two clubs competing for patrons then maybe we would see the focus on spending dollars in the right place..Infrastructure for horse facility, Trainers/Owners/Jockeys, etc, etc,. We would also see two totally different marketing programs, not only promoting racing in WA but also promoting the specific track activites for each race day.

So would that make a big difference to our product, to the services that bookies can offer to punters and particpants???? I woudl say yes. Competition drives change. And the cost to implement those changes would be thrown back at RWWA, which would want full justification of benefits for bucks spent. So i would suggest you would end up with well thought out, well planned changes to the facilities.

It is just a suggestion that tackles the problem from a different angle, as experience tells me that you cant get change within Government Departments..but they do occassionally rise to a challenge.

It is pie in the sky stuff and i doubt it would ever happen...but just trying to think outside the box a bit... Any PR commitee men reading this please dont cancel my membership immediately..I haven't used it yet this season..haha

Darkhorse · October 2013

Hey Guys,

during your enforced holiday, have you thought about offering a free course on bookmaking to those in power.

This could include government and racing bodies.

It could go somewhere to helping them understand how you go about your business and what you are trying to achieve.

bookielover · October 2013

Like your post DH, but nothing short of a frontal lobotomy would help them, and even that's doubtful. 8-}

raconteur · October 2013

...I remember reading last winter that RWWA was putting aside $2m for the promotion of " county cups " especially Broome, Kal and Northam ( possibly others or more ) .

Did this actually occur and if it did - where were the promotions ?

thefalcon · October 2013

rio, are you saying you would welcome 2 committees?

i am about to contact terry w and suggest he reads this thread...he probably does or his minions do.

RIO · October 2013

yes falcon. two independent clubs.

Let competition drive some changes. What we have now isn't working. Clubs like Pinjarra and Bunbury - may be more but they are the ones i see - are better now than 5 years ago, but i cant say that about either track/facility in the city.

raconteur · October 2013

but RIO - we can't get One good committee or 8 good committeemen now - how will we get 2 with 16 ?

thefalcon · October 2013

the prospect is just too horrific to contemplate. they'd be fighting like cats in a sack, trying to out do each other, squabbling like kids. for once i would feel sorry for rwwa.

perish the thought...16 men good and true....

=))

RIO · October 2013

i hear you.......I put some thought into this the other night after i posted what i did. I feel that i could come up with an expereiced group of committe men that are both commercially experienced and committe experienced to come on board. All of who have a connection to the racing industry.

So if ican do that on a blank piece of A4 paper i am sure the whole industry could sort out an appointed committee.

4 initally appointed committe people for 2yrs, then elected from that point with one position contested every year -

and 4 industry particpants. Bookies Assoc, WAROA, Trainers Assoc and Jockey's Association. No need for breeders as a race track doesn't need to provide for the breeding industry. But all the other associations are particpants on race day.

RIO · October 2013

dont forget..blue skying here..no intent to make that happen..no interest in making it happen, just looking at things from a different angle.

And your right Falc...wouldn't that have RWWA jumping and working hard for the industry to keep it all going!!!!

lame · October 2013

RIO said:
I lightheartedly put up that we have a second race club for the Perth Tracks. So we have the Belmont Race Club and Ascot Race Club, to generate a competitiveness at the front end for the punters and patrons at the two facilities.
Ascot would be a training facilty, Belmont a trial facility - so both clubs would get extra funding from RWWA.
Now that doesn't fix RWWA or RGL, but it would increase the flow of demands to both those associations from two Clubs that are focused on only one function (training or trialling facility). And you'd hope it then created an environment within those departments of proactivity - ie, theyd have to plan for a smooth transitional period to ensure that racing continued unimpeded, and also most importantly it should create a environment of negotiated outcomes..Something that i dont think happens a the moment.
I am certain that PR tells RWWWA what it will do with the grants and funds and RWWA tells PR what it will give them money for and what they want to do it with.. I dont sense that the required amount of negotiated outcomes that should happen, happen when there are no alternatives to talk to and get ideas of best value for spend from.
If we had two clubs competing for patrons then maybe we would see the focus on spending dollars in the right place..Infrastructure for horse facility, Trainers/Owners/Jockeys, etc, etc,. We would also see two totally different marketing programs, not only promoting racing in WA but also promoting the specific track activites for each race day.
So would that make a big difference to our product, to the services that bookies can offer to punters and particpants???? I woudl say yes. Competition drives change. And the cost to implement those changes would be thrown back at RWWA, which would want full justification of benefits for bucks spent. So i would suggest you would end up with well thought out, well planned changes to the facilities.
It is just a suggestion that tackles the problem from a different angle, as experience tells me that you cant get change within Government Departments..but they do occassionally rise to a challenge.
It is pie in the sky stuff and i doubt it would ever happen...but just trying to think outside the box a bit... Any PR commitee men reading this please dont cancel my membership immediately..I haven't used it yet this season..haha

the only problem with this idea Rio is the government dept's would chew up three quarters of the funding
employing 50 people for each venue than the chief would want to be on BHP Billiton CEO wages for being incharge of those extra 50 people

TheDiva · October 2013

I think there is already enough competition without race clubs competing against each other.

Racing already has to compete with all the other forms of entertainment that are offered up. We all need to move in the same direction to increase the flow of dollars and interest out of our industry.

RIO · October 2013

raconteur said:
I agree with the majority of posters and their post comments - but "How will it change" - if those at the top of - either RGL , RWWA or PR will not move to change the status quo ?
It seems to me that the current Racing Minister is silent ( I will stop short of saying mute) on all aspects of racing and betting - as evidenced by his non commenting throughout the Belmont track issue and the generic replies to letters sent to his dept.

RGL is a typical sedentary Govt. body not flexible enough to deal with a vibrant ever changing industry, RWWA is a quango dominated by Govt. appointed persons with no knowledge and ( it seems ) no regard for the long term viability of that Industry and PR seems to be bound in much of that 'staleness' with agendas which don't seem to fit with the future of the Industry's sustainable metropolitan racing - outside of an associated land development.

So again - How will it change ? and more importantly " What can we do to ensure or force a change?"

Okay so i put forward one obscure suggestion, but how about a few others throwing up ideas.on hoiw to get change??? Any ideas on how to go about getting changes happening??

thefalcon · October 2013

rio, it is almost impossible to change a govt. instrumentality...."mentality" being the operative word.

G'day Punter!

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Racing, Gaming & Liquor suspends PUNTA for two week period

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