Racing, Gaming & Liquor suspends PUNTA for two week period

PerthTurfTalk · September 2013

After announcing their arrival to the online betting market three months ago, West Australian bookmaker PUNTA has been dealt a sinister blow having had its license suspended by Racing, Gaming & Liquor,as of Thursday 26th, September for a period of two weeks, with less than a day's notice.

The penalty came completely unexpected following a minor breach of conduct; accepting a phone bet seconds after a race had commenced. Despite the fact the punter was aware the race had jumped, current legislation requires that the bet be cancelled immediately - a fact not known by the bookmaker at the time. As penalty the WA commission ruled that PUNTA be unable to operate for a fortnight with no warning and no avenue for appeal.

Other West Australia bookmakers found guilty of the same violation have previously been served with a warning notice, whilst the violation makes a mockery of the fact it is now common to bet ‘in the run’ with corporate agencies.

The incident is just another in a long line of unjust treatment by the governing body.

PUNTA’s application for an Internet betting system with Racing, Gaming & Liquor spanned over a drawn-out 12 months, requiring the system to be tested twice (at a cost to the agency) by two different parties. The ability to offer common bet types “Top Fluc” & “Best Tote” are still yet to be approved after nearly a year since submission.

PUNTA is the third approved Internet betting system in West Australia and has strived to offer a transparent and competitive product focused on Perth thoroughbred racing. The introduction of ‘bet requests’ and the ability to talk to the bookmakers directly aimed to add a human side to what is becoming a transactional industry.

It is the decision of the company to remain licensed in Western Australia so that unlike it’s competing corporates, all turnover tax (1% - 2% of turnover) is redistributed back into the West Australian racing industry.

With no option for appeal PUNTA will not operate between the 26th September to 10th October, resuming pre-post betting for Belmont on Friday 11th October.

PUNTA's advertising expenditure with our website, the lifeblood for the continuation of Perth Turf Talk, will also be halted during this period.

PUNTA plans to continue to fight for a level playing field in being able to offer a service and bet types that are readily available in other jurisdictions. The company tagline “WE’LL BET YA” represents its mission to provide punters with exceptional value, without ever being banned.

During the suspension, all PUNTA members will still have the ability to access and withdraw from their account if required.

Chelsea · September 2013

What an absolute joke.should have been given a slap on the wrist as an absolute maximum.Most corporates are protected to the hilt especially in the N.T.Yet here we have a local bookmaker, trying to provide a service to local racing participants, but constantly hitting various brick walls.WAKE UP RACING GAMING AND LIQUOR.and concentrate on the card dealers at crown casino who can't count.HANG IN THERE PUNTA.
I know what I'm taking about having worked in management at the casino and a corporate bookmaker in the N.T.

LuckyLongshots · September 2013

How does R,G & L even find out a bet was taken seconds after the jump? Big Brother!!!!! :-S

Thoroly_Bread · September 2013

LuckyLongshots said:
How does R,G & L even find out a bet was taken seconds after the jump? Big Brother!!!!! :-S

That's what I was wondering?

SuperSnoop · September 2013

what a fkn disgrace. one can only conclude this is a conspiracy against a new bookie.

ive seen the website,....it would scare RWWA to see this, compared to the pile of crap they have just dished up as new and up with the times.

Keep up the fight Punta...we NEED a bookie who is accountable (which the darwin bookies are not). We need someone to keep the bastards honest.

I know that RWWA and RGL are different, but they are both government and their priority is the TAB and they will try and squash any threats. this is what they have done in the past and they will continue to do it.

Dont give in. their actions say much more than you think. you are a big threat to them all.

RIO · September 2013

this is abysmal..Waldon gave an assurance in writing last year that the proposed changes from the Bookmakers association to enable them to keep pace with corporates and interstate bookmakeers was a very hihg prioirity for RGL and it was expected to be completed before the 2013 carnival began..

And here we have this head in the sand, empire building government department that the punters pay for, doing nothing to provide a service for their customers...

Cretins.....Peter Allen aka RIO will do all he can to hold the bastards accountable on this crap.... Cos this sort of betting option is exactly what was discussed and was agreed was needed to be competitive..

And @The Diva i'd be reminding them that you have served your 2 week suspension over the past 2 weeks when the other department they are connected at the waist to, couldn't manage to provide a race meeting. how i'd love toe be able to divulge what i knwo about this situation...Change needs to be made and heads need to roll. All those of you who are scared of privatization of RWWA stop and think about what a wonderful job they are doing under the auspices of The Government...between RWWA, RGL and PR you'd find enough nuts to breed a very fat colony of squirrels!!!

DurkaDurka · September 2013

Why the suspension and not the warning like the other bookmakers?

I was betting in the run today on betfair. Im sure many other punters do too.

so why is a licensed person precluded from betting in the run, when any tom, dick or harry can do it at will via betfair?

why have the governments big brother got it in for punta? each and every melbourne cup day, there are HUNDREDS of bets that go on after the race has jumped. I have seen them 5 deep at the stands trying to get on as they are going past the post for the first time.

have to agree that something has gotten their goat that they dont like.

Carlosa · September 2013

It's Bettingwest all over again! Pathetic...

DurkaDurka · September 2013

yes Rio, what did happen to those changes that were negotiated at Melbourne Cup time last year. Where is the top fluc and best tote we were all promised....to bring us up to the year 2000. (hang on, its 2013 already???)

wasnt there a threat of a bookies strike if the government continued to ignore the bookies pleas for an equal playing field.

Its funny that the launch of the new tabtouch co-incides with these blokes getting a time-out? I wouldnt have even mentioned this, except for the body handing out the penalty, is the body who is the direct competition to the bookmaker. that is, our state government!

velcrocandy · September 2013

To answer Thoroly Bread's & Lucky's query, the phone call went something like this......phone answered,........"punta bookmaking...........they;ve jumped.........hi so & so you want $400 on #x look they've jumped I'll bet you $100" to keep a credit customer happy .................twas a staying race so they were basically coming down the straight the first time............both parties were aware they'd jumped & a bet was agreed........isnt that servicing your client ???? THey bet in the run on racing on Betfair & also on sport all the time. But we are governed by an act from 1978 that hasnt changed or been reviewed in 35 years....while the world moves on around us, WA sits there & does nothing. But of course RWWA can bet in the run if THEY deem a race or event worthy of betting in the run............they have their own set of rules to stay competitive in the wagering market.

Then the powers that be tell us that WE AS BOOKIES NEED TO PETITION TO CHANGE SUCH THINGS.......yet RWWA can accept the betting rules of any Australian jurisdiction & have it self approved overnight. TO bet whatever they want, whenever they want, at their discretion.

The ACCC would have a field day with this.

RIO · September 2013

if the incestuous government empire building departments didn't manage it all, this would not happen..if the betting houses (TAB Touch) were sold off and audited by government departments....it'd be an open, equal and fairer, process for all betting agents registered in WA...

And i'd only want change as these nuts constantly prove that they are not competent enough....And every one of you/us (punters) pay to be treated like this!!!

DurkaDurka · September 2013

the hipocrisy is amazing

i heard the watab was going to start offering betting in the run on events

NOW how does the above penalty look?

:-?

RIO · September 2013

I just checked and here i am supporting Punta when they rejected my only winning bet today!!!!!....haha.. That'll teach me for not checking my bets; and asking for twice the starting price!!!!

LuckyLongshots · September 2013

@velcrocandy, thanks for the explanation - but as discussed above, what about the past two weeks when you weren't able to operate your legitimate business, because of the poor performance of some to provide a safe track for racing on.

Have the bookies as an (bookies) association, been compensated for the past fortnights losses due to poor management of the racetrack?

velcrocandy · September 2013

@LuckyLongshots - no we havent - in fact we had staff on course on Sunday from 11.30 until 1.05 pm thinking there was a meeting on & conducting business as usual ..only to be told after the first race was supposed to jump that the meeting was now off. We had to compensate our staff for coming out as a result...............

TheDiva · September 2013

we're extremely disappointed about today's news.

however, mark our words...we will be back in two weeks and we will continue to fight the fight. Please stick by us in the meantime.

the following things we would like to offer, but are currently restricted from doing:

1. tote based betting

2. jockey challenge

3. top fluc betting

4. betting on other meetings such as eastern states feature meetings

5. pre-post betting on all days of the week (as opposed to just Fridays)

We won't be giving up and thanks to those who have bet with us over the last few months and given us your feedback. We have and will continue to take it all on board and keep improving our offering as best we can given the road blocks placed on us.

thefalcon · September 2013

i feel for you and jason, matthew.

TheDiva · September 2013

Don't feel sorry for us, get behind us!

thefalcon · September 2013

wtf can "we" do....??

i'd never get behind you, diva..

[-X

Thumper · September 2013

RGL is full of muppets who champion the cause for WA to remain a Nanny State. No doubt our favourite government body that is also full of muppets are somehow involved. Wonder if Player has to go through 12 months of approvals everytime they want to offer a new bet type. Of course not.

jonesee · September 2013

Its a very very bad decision. Another very very bad decision!! How stupid does it get when the WA racing authority desperately try to ruin a genuine WA bookie trying to have a go at competing with the pommie corporate slugs and cheatfair. Fair dinkum disgraceful.

darkshines · September 2013

RG&L got tentland and GP NYE shutdown for 'crimes' that would occur at 20 times the rate every single weekend in the bridge, Subi amd Freo.

I knew of a RG&L 'cop' once. Absolute fwit of a man.

thefalcon · September 2013

and they allow freo pubs to open at 7am on sat...sheer lunacy. then they will yell about unsavory drunken behaviour.

hundreds of yobbos will be off their face before bounce-down...not only freo yobs, they'll come from everywhere.

and they close bars at the races about 10 mins after the last...mature folk having a celebratory beer....fuckwits!!

AndrewCarter · September 2013

Yeah thought that decision to allow them to open bars at 7am
on GF day was staggering and flies directly in the face of the responsible
alcohol consumption and service policy. Totally bizarre, disgraceful, decision
against your company Diva, you can bet in the run on the corporates, betfair
etc what planet do these braindead clowns live on and more importantly in what
century.

Reeks of protectionism.

RIO · September 2013

the falcon said:
wtf can "we" do....??

i'd never get behind you, diva..
[-X

Hi Everyone, I know that it is hard to take 10 or 20 minutes out of your day and go through this process of writing to the minsiter. But i can assure you from the many times i have done this to this minister and others, you do get heard and you normally get a response. Last year i got several and it did help me understand the process that is required.

However they have failed on all the goals they advised me they wanted to achieve. If you want to let the government - and in particular this department - know that you are unhappy about Punta being suspended for a minor infringment that nearly all other bookies not registered in WA are allowed to do. Simply write a one or two line note to the ministers department and let them know.

Over many years of interraction with numerous government departments i have found this the most effective way of getting change to happen, or in the worst case scenario, understanding why the process can be so slow. It is certainly more powerful than a petition with a 1000 signatures on it.

Below is a link to his departments general e-mail. For those who are unhappy with the range of products we have availlable i feel this is the best way to let him and his department know.

I know they will be getting another one from me. I hope a few of you can also find the time to support both Punta and all WA Bookies trying to survive, on what can only be described as a very uneven playing field.

http://www.premier.wa.gov.au/Ministers/Terry-Waldron/Pages/Contact-The-Minister.aspx

rick · September 2013

RIO · September 2013

Hope this doesn't post twice as i thought i had already posted it but it doesn't appear anywhere on the thread!!!

I am sure all of you could write a better one with less dribbling and waffling than i do!!!! God help us if me and BookieLover ever correspond!!!!

Hi Terry,

I wrote to you last year in relation to how unfair I thought
it was that local Bookmakers were having to pay an extra fee to field at our
Spring Carnival. I also touched on how I felt that the bookies were being
hampered in their endeavours to be competitive against corporate and east coast
or internationally registered Bookmakers, due to not being able to offer the
same range of betting options.

As a lifelong supporter of all things WA I have recently
opened a betting account with an online bookie called Punta. I have just been
advised that they have had their license cancelled for 2 weeks due to accepting
a bet from a punter a few seconds after the horse jump. I find it astounding
that your department enforces this ridiculous penalty on someone who is trying
to prevent the drain of massive betting dollars from this state to bookies and
corporates that are registered either off shore or in territories and states
where the WA industry gets no financial - or very little - reward for all those
monies wagered.

Last year you advised that top flucs, and best tote betting
options as a minimum would be introduced for all bookies registered in WA. That
hasn't happened still, nearly 12 months later.

So when you add your departments lethargic and snail like
pace of change, to the abysmal performance of RWWA and their track management
this winter, you and your department are making it very hard for any punters to
remain loyal to the WA product and the betting options that are allowed by WA
Bookies.

I implore you to address this ridiculous situation that
doesn't allow WA bookies to be competitive with ones that are registered
outside of WA. And I implore you to make the regulatory changes that you
committed to over 12 months ago. As for the basket case labelled RWWA, I’ll leave
them alone until you can show some movement on the betting options situation.
As I’d hope you are already fully investigating their incompetent performance
of the past 6-7 weeks.

Yours sincerely

RIO

bookielover · September 2013

There is an old saying"you can't fight city hall". It is a saying which you don't hear much nowadays, because the fact is, not only CAN you fight city hall, but you can beat them.

Punta fought city hall and after a long very frustrating fight, managed to establish their internet web site.

City Hall has got the sh!!ts. Big time. So not only will they draw out the promise to bookies that bookies will be able to bet top fluc, tote odds etc. but they will take every opportunity to make Punta's life a misery and thereby hope to eventually put Punta out of business.

My fellow posters, have all made points that I would have made and won't repeat here.

Unfortunately, racing has always had its bullies, particularly where bookies are concerned.

Phone betting was going to destroy racing as we know it and the bullies fought against it tooth and nail. It wasn't until a QC working pro bono for a couple of bookies, let it be known to the bullies that unless they allowed phones for bookies on-course, then they would face massive legal action at the ACCC. The bullies compounded, but still couldn't help themselves and said bookies could have the phones but with a minimum $200 bet. Of course, that was phased out after 4 years.

There are many reasons why racing outside of carnival time is rooted. Bookies having on course phones is not one of them.

So what should Punta do.

It's easy for me to say, fk em. Go after the bullies. Take RGL, RWWA, the Premier, his missus and their dog, if they have got one, to the ACCC and present a restraint of trade case to the ACCC.

Let the ACCC decide whether or not Punta and the other on-course bookies should be permitted to bet top fluc etc.

But here lies the problem. Why should Punta go it alone. And where are the other on course bookies. What have they done to support Punta.

Where is the Western Australian Bookmakers Association in all this.

At least the Victorian Bookmakers Association, approached Government with one voice and the results are there for all to see. They can bet on two flies crawling up a wall. The only thing that they haven't been able to get through, is the capacity to bet off track without having an on track presence and that applies in Sydney too.

Without getting into a whole debate about that, I agree with the Government on that one, because if that was to be instigated, we wouldn't have a bookie prepared to go to the track. In fact, it's unfortunate that the States can't force the Corporates to have an on-track presence like they do in England, but that's another story.

So, until the WABA are prepared to mount a challenge in the ACCC against the quite obvious and unconscionable restraint of trade that is being enforced by the bullies, Punta will have to take its medicine, and continue to work quietly behind the scenes to achieve the outcomes that it both seeks, and deserves.

When the boys do achieve those outcomes, perhaps we will see the last of the bullies, at least as far as the bookies are concerned.

In the meantime, and I haven't seen anything to the contrary, the WABA should hang their heads in shame at their total silence on this issue and the disgraceful suspension meted out to one of their members.

bookielover · September 2013

I have been informed that Jason from Punta, is President of the WABA.

As President of WABA, if a statement decrying the ridiculous punishment meted out to Punta, was issued with Jason as signatory on the statement, it would be looked upon as a conflict of interest, and rightly so.

But there is nothing preventing Jason recusing himself from such a statement, and the statement being signed by the Committee and members of WABA.

If the members of WABA, were fair dinkum about improving the viability of their businesses, they would be shouting from the rooftops about Punta's predicament.

But they remind me of the bookies association when my old man was a bookie back during the 50's until 1990. The bookies had a dog eat dog mentality and it was every man for himself. It wasn't until that attitude changed, that the bookies finally got some results, and at least as tough as it is, bookie numbers in Victoria have stabilised at around the 190 mark, for the last 20 years.

It's the old story of united we stand and divided we fall.

It is incumbent upon the WABA to support their colleagues whether one of the partners is President of the Association or not.

To do nothing, sends a signal to RWWA and RGL, that the members just don't give a stuff what happens to their colleagues.

And that's the worst message that the bookies could possibly send, because itsays more about the members, than anything one could say about RWWA and RGL

RIO · September 2013

i know i'm a one-eyed supporter of Punta, so it may just be my imagination working overtime.... but i reckon today is the lowest early fixed prices on TABTouch i have seen for many weeks!!!

bookielover · September 2013

Feel sorry for the few bookies that have bothered to turn up to Belly today, but so far Punta have been spared two plonks in the first two races.

It might be a very profitable suspension for them.

( you watch, 6 outsiders will win now that I've gone the early crow)

:D

G'day Punter!

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Racing, Gaming & Liquor suspends PUNTA for two week period

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