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  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    i also believe sensei is correct....what a deal that could have been..own Ascot and get a lot of land to develop on the edges of metro..i also heard there was a plan to have light rail going direct to it....not afterwards, but part of the development, which the state government were prepared to pick up a large share of the costs..will never get it now, no matter what does or doesn't happen with Belmont
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  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    Guess who the most recent former CEO brokered a deal for when in charge of the RAC.
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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    golden river?
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  • SPUDLEYSPUDLEY    1,584 posts
    So Ascot is leased that I did not of, okay then how about getting the actual owner of the land to renovate or develop it so as to make it a bit more modern.
    What are the terms of the lease and what are the tenants allowed to do to the property plus who has control of the lease and when does it end.
    There has to be something that can be done if they are willing or is everyone at PR ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL if so it's time we got some real people with a bit of spunk in to rev the joint up a bit.
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  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    It will never happen Spudley as long as the geriatric brigade are looked after, they'll continue to vote for the status quo.
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  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    Spot on falcon.
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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    i've even forgotten his name...there 5 minutes, did the deal and vanished.
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  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,567 posts
    Im not sure what has to be done, however, I do know that if something isnt done soon, both ascot and belmont wll be left behind from the rest of the city. Perth is going through a boom of expansion and upgrades in the city centre and throughout. BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME
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  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    SPUDLEY said:

    So Ascot is leased that I did not of, okay then how about getting the actual owner of the land to renovate or develop it so as to make it a bit more modern.
    What are the terms of the lease and what are the tenants allowed to do to the property plus who has control of the lease and when does it end.
    There has to be something that can be done if they are willing or is everyone at PR ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL if so it's time we got some real people with a bit of spunk in to rev the joint up a bit.

    think they may be in the last decade of a 99yr peppercorn lease..Which from memory (sorry for the vagueness, but cant be fugged checking everything exactly) has the terms that the lessee is liable for all costs associated with the running, maintaining and development of the site. I think they may have a 10 or 50yr option on it.. maybe i should check all that but it is similar to that if that isn't quite spot on...

    So the club is responsible for the site. the lease is with the State Government. that is while a ownership swap from Belmont to Ascot and a new site with guaranteed public transport support for it, was the best option for Racing in Perth..IMO..that opportunity is gone. And the government are no longer receptive to our industry due to how we deliberately undermined them in relation to the football stadium...

    And we traded all that for $50mil over 25 yrs..if and when the units sell + the buildings constructed for the new redevelopment of Belmont.
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  • PolarPolar    45 posts
    Well give it back to the gov and cut a deal for a chunk of land elsewhere .
    The gov would love it back , it's prime real estate .
    We are the only state going backwards regarding tracks .
    Ascot is terribly conformed .
    Belmont is not much better .
    Pinjarra wasted money on a silly 1000m strait with crazy bias .
    Bunbury is tight and a smaller version of ascot .
    Northam is our best configured track but is like running on concrete .
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  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    not many share your view Polar..a new purpose built track with great design and track layout...well we could have had that....but redeveloping Belmont was a better option according to the people who make the decisions
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  • PolarPolar    45 posts
    Also lark hill is the best of the lot and it's a training facility only .
    The actual main strait at Lark Hill is opposite to where they run the trials and if you look at a aerial shot you will understand what i mean , it has a 1200 m strait run , it has a 2400m chute and a 1600m chute if i am correct .
    Ascot and belmont have the worst starting points for races 1400 or over .
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  • PolarPolar    45 posts
    Rio from my understanding the track is staying the same , only new buildings and other stuff .
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  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    Belmont will lose the 1000m chute and the 2400m chute
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  • PolarPolar    45 posts
    From people i know over east , trainers and owners etc , laugh at ascot and belmont .
    Wonder why the 2nd raters come for the railway , run the last 2 railways at flemington and lucky gray wins both outright .
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  • PolarPolar    45 posts
    Just read your comments sensai , if that's correct then what a joke not taking the offer .
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  • senseisensei    100 posts
    worse Polar. We didn't even allow the government an opportunity to table it!

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  • PolarPolar    45 posts
    I am pulling my hair out .
    Also bunbury are trying to redevelop on the same site and theres no room , when asked about moving further out of town , it was said no one would go .
    Well no one goes anyway , most people these days punt from home , only on special days do they go .
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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    "cut a deal for a chunk of land somewhere.." where?
    have to be down south and there would be less attendence than ascot now.
    every capital have their metro tracks close to the city.

    back to the re-development. its all under the table because of restrictive journalism. if this happened in nsw or vic the press would be all over it...and rightly so.
    someone should tip off paul murray.
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  • SPUDLEYSPUDLEY    1,584 posts
    Holy Gee never in my wildest dreams did I think that I would have got this response.
    So PR are in the last decade of a 99 yr lease with some form of option either 10 or 50 year .
    Well I only hope someone from PR is talking to both parties in the forthcoming election or else we are all screwed .
    One question do the reporters at the West work for it or do they work for RWWA because there is serious smell in the wind.
    Who is the Minister for Racing I think we need to go and knock on his door with a bulldozer something as serious as this needs to be brought out into the open like NOW NOW NOW.
    Does this current so called government even understand the amount of people involved in racing they bloody well should with the amount of TAX that we as a industry pay as well our insipid Federal clowns should also do something with all the bloody GST we now pay on all our horse bills.

    First job tomorrow go and see your local polly and wake him or her up to this bloody mess the sooner we cleanse the wound the sooner we get a chance to heal and move forward.
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  • PolarPolar    45 posts
    Remember spudley , some governments don't pump in money because from what i am told they don't like some of the incidents that come out of racing on occasions if you get my drift .
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  • ImportImport    80 posts
    Okay.. purely as a hypothetical question to a degree because of the aforementioned points, and also as a slightly different way of putting things, but what would people suggest if a new racecourse or major upgrade to a racetrack was to occur both in terms of the set up of the track itself or the related infrastructure. I suppose by extension what would both bring patrons to the track (and how important is this).
    Would we have "fairer" tracks than many suggest Ascot is? Would we reconfigure the set-up to have a more user-friendly and aestheic mounting yard? Would we have "better" bars/food service areas than we are provided with now? How far would we be willing to travel to go to the races if things were improved? How important is it that people are willing to go to the track? etc etc etc
    Lets's me clear, I don't have answers to these questions but just know how important it is for people to voice their opinion on the subject. Sometimes when you think about the amount of people that are directly related to the industry and then add on the people that are indirectlty related, that only a relatively small percentage are willing to go to the track. Wouldn't it be great to attract these people to the racecourse if it is in fact important that patronage is a priority. And if it is not a priority surely confidence in betting on the product is the most important thing?
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  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    i would have liked a new track alongside the freeway in the southern corridor. the government woudl have been well in front on the land value of Belmont, and there fore would have been prepared to contribute significantly to the infrastructure...there was even "talk' of it being in the Byford/cardup area and a light rail spur line put to it

    You would have your normal grass track but also an all weather track..Massive new target market of young families whilst still close to public transport for everyone to get there.

    Build new facilities and target the audience that has growth and the crowds will come.

    I still think the best option was to swap track titles and retain Belmont as is, give them Ascot, and then get a track to the south.

    target young families..owners and members will follow the racing - remember they are already attracted!!! If you have a quality facility the crowds will come..if it accessible the crowds will come.

    Midweek twilight's at Belmont(summer) and Saturday at the new track......

    Now someone else throw out some ideas.
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  • Holly1Holly1    24 posts
    Rio, very sadly there is no money coming from Belmont Park to upgrade Ascot. If you go onto the RWWA and read the minutes from the trainers assoc over the last 12 months you will be able to see a shocking pattern, Perth Racing do not have any money, and they certainly do not appear to have any for maintenance.

    What is even more scary is that the Chairman of Perth Racing allegedly made the comment that Ascot as a training venue is not what he sees for the future of racing in WA. We are probably all very lucky that Ascot is not owned by Perth Racing. Apparantly Perth Racing wants to be seen as an " Events Company" Well if the "events Planning of the summer carnival is anything to go by they have been as successful in that field as they have been in property development.

    Track Manager Geoff Murphy openly tells anyone who wants to listen that Perth Racing is broke and will not give him money to do maintenance - this has been documented in minutes.

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  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    You blokes have gotta forget about the on-course crowds - that is a society change that has nothing to do with how good or bad the races are as entertainment - IMO it will NEVER be the way it used to be.

    People just aren't interested in attending any sort of races these days (barring a Black Caviar appearance). Time is precious these days, people have just got better things to do. And if they are interested, they sign up to Fox and get an account.

    Anything the club does to get people to the track has to be fantastically enticing (ummmmm maybe like transport, free entry, good food, reasonably priced beverages etc etc etc)

    Unfortunately, it seems the only way they can pay for that is to find more money. From betting revenue would be the most obvious source. Focus on fixing the PRODUCT, and maybe, just maybe, you could have some coin to spend getting people back on course.

    Wasting money on trying to get people on course whilst the product goes to sh*t (like it is now) is completely the wrong approach. IMO.
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  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    Agree with you darkshines about stop trying to get people in the gate...Produce a quality product in appropriate facilities and the crowds(well people) will come..not punting crowds, and nothing like the halcyon days of years gone..but good crowds to use and pay for the facilities...All facilities at both grounds now are based on having heavy drinking gamblers attend.....The current layout of both venues isn't suitable..

    IMO that is why a deal with the government would have been ideal......we would have got a modern, market suitable venue that required little maintenance for many years..
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  • SPUDLEYSPUDLEY    1,584 posts
    What I would like to know is WAROA'S position on all this there has hardly been a peep from anyone in regards this matter, what are they doing as this is a very serious case. The sooner something is done or at least seen to doing something we may feel a little better, but all you want do at the moment WTF IS GOING ON
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    I disagree that people dont want to come to the races. PR puts on a few outstanding days each year (outside of the carnival days).
    Example Italian and Irish days are always huge.
    So, this proves, PR "can" do it and it also proves people will come under the right conditions.

    Racing just needs to re-invent itself somewhat. It needs a brain and ideas and a huge public relations machine to achieve it however...and im not sure PR has the heads or the money to pull it off.
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  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    I knew someone would mention these novelty events, sure they pull a crowd.

    I was referring to the fact in the old days you'd get them through the door week in week out just to punt - that simply won't happen again.
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    no, you're right darkshines.....these days, people want to be entertained.....
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