Pacing PensionersHarness & Greyhounds

VillageKid

getthechange said:

Hi Chariots - Bill Walker and Jim Schrader are cousins - their mothers are twin sisters

Wow you learn something new every day....I had no idea that was the case.....cheers GTC!

JayJay

Billy Walker born in NZ.

savethegame

Couple years ago the sale of the TAB  deal was 65%  going Towards the building of new Hospital--35% purely for infrastructure for the codes.----New owners to fund the codes going forward --- the sale price ?

Talkabout change or rumour  seems like its worth $1 billion now. The W.A. government will pass the proceeds on-to RWWA, while the new owner will retain all future earnings..

Harnesslink story re. Auckland Trotting Club 7/12. they were in cruise control gee found quick  sand.in a hurry.

savethegame

Bill Walker did play the last seven games of the season for Gawlia  1960 won F&B in two team comp. Then went to swans. 61 was shearing in the area at the time,

curmudgeon

Bill would have learned to stay on his feet on the gravel ground at Gwalia .....a mercurochrome special.

PictureSon1973

Jay Jay as a point of interest has there ever been a Charter / KPI given by RWWA indicating to clubs
what they require/ want in order for those clubs to be sustainable ?
Apart from stating the obvious you will require a shitload of money!

JayJay

No idea, Bob Fowler may be able to answer that. He is the industry nominated director and I think a member of the Harness Racing Consultative Group. But who would know? There are rumours swirling that they want to further rationalise the number of clubs/tracks but I have seen or read nothing official.

curmudgeon

RWWA has always had its principles @PictureSon1973 .... and like Groucho Marx ...if you don't like them ....then it has others.

Chariotsonfire

The only two tracks that were closed during my 11 years on the RWWA Board were Harvey and Geraldton.

Harvey exceeded all KPIs and was only closed due to a financial dispute between the Club and the owners of the land on which the track was situated. RWWA even made an offer to purchase the property but a compromise was not close to being reached.  In reality in the current era if you started with a blank page Harvey's situation between Pinjarra and Bunbury would make it surplus to requirements.

In the case of Geraldton the number of horses trained in the area did not justify the cost to industry participants travelling to Geraldton meetings when other more accessible clubs were in need of additional meetings.that would achieve greater turnover at reduced costs.

JayJay

Acknowledged that Harvey was a unique and unsolvable situation and that Geraldton probably should never have been started in the first instance.

But, who closed York, Wylie, Cunderdin, Trayning, Katanning, Merredin and Kalgoorlie and has almost choked the life out of Williams and Bridgetown with their two meetings per annum, and has applied the shears to both Collie and Busselton? The "we only want to race at Perth and Pinjarra" purple circle are surely the most myopic and short term opportunistic industry destroyers ever.

Chariotsonfire

The York shire closed York as they wanted the land for redevelopment. An alternative track was offered inside the Racecourse but the facility would have been less than ideal and with Northam located minutes away and a dearth of horses trained in York the cost to the industry could not be justified.

The closure of Wyalkatchem, Trayning, Katanning and Merredin all took place under the WATA watch. Kalgoorlie was a different issue and I was not privy to the logic behind it. 

Like you JayJay as then President of the WA Bookmakers Association I spoke strongly against the opening of Geraldton at the time.

AbbysAce

Chariotsonfire said:

The York shire closed York as they wanted the land for redevelopment. An alternative track was offered inside the Racecourse but the facility would have been less than ideal and with Northam located minutes away and a dearth of horses trained in York the cost to the industry could not be justified.

The closure of Wyalkatchem, Trayning, Katanning and Merredin all took place under the WATA watch. Kalgoorlie was a different issue and I was not privy to the logic behind it. 

Like you JayJay as then President of the WA Bookmakers Association I spoke strongly against the opening of Geraldton at the time.

I know there is a track inside the galloping track at York, looks about 900mts at a guess, good camper on corners, they could use the galloping judges box and broadcasters box.

Chariotsonfire

Track was built to cater for fast work for local trainers but can't see the point of running a meeting there with sub standard facilities and poor viewing for trot patrons with Northam just down the road.

All credit to Pat Flynn and others who worked hard to have the track built. York has been a bit of disaster over the years from a Thoroughbred aspect as well.

freodockers

Kalgoorlie trots closed due to lack of horses supposedly not turnover.
Majority of country clubs clubs within six months of closing Kal had the same issue ie field sizes.
KBRC field sizes are a disgrace yet no mention of closing it down.
If that’s not discrimination I don’t know what is.

SLIPPERGOLDEN

I liked the Harvey track. Had a few enjoyable evenings at that location. York was very intimate around the footy oval.

JayJay

The old Harvey or the new one Slip, I really liked both. Everything was "intimate" at York.....the bookies ring about 5 metres from the outside fence, when they came down the straight if something was 3 or 4 wide (about as wide as you could), it almost scrapped the outside running rail and good luck getting into the first turn. But one thing stood out for me....the top drivers mastered the track.....couldn't tell you how many winners FRK or Jimmy the Jet or Woody or Freddy Hough.

And good horses raced there as well......a random pick from November 2, 1971 (50 years ago)....the winners were Simone Lee (Jack Jones), Bold Volo (off 36 yards if you don't mind) Ray Sweetman, Frosty Volo (off 24 yards) Fred Hough, Marbellup won the 2.19 front FFA for Mick Taylor (Jimmy's Dad) who followed up with a double in the next with Gay Winston and old mate Rodney Pescud, currently chief of operations at Bond Racing, won the last on Stuart Henry for old Pop Johnson. Ask him about it when you next see him, you'll get the whole story (said with zero malice, a great character).

That's the thing....until the administrative "fixers" emerged to tamper with, and ultimately destroy, the very base of the industry, country trotting was the ducks nuts. Top horses,  top drivers, big crowds....the whole town turned out ....but the system could only withstand so many hand grenades. For example, Pinjarra, November 18, 1971. How's this for a list of quality winners on a Thursday Night meeting, with Isaac Hayes and the Theme from Shaft blaring out out of the Air Chief Radio as we towed down the South West Highway........Dollars Double Lyle Lindau, Bangalore Ray Grantham, Yankee Rhythm Trevor Warwick (beat Susie Girl and Tijuana Bay Tricky, in case you were wondering), old favourite Coolup Way won the 2.18 Pace worth $639 for the legend,  Laurie Robinson, Crusader Gay Jack Retzlaff and Capogena Bill Kersley.

Old pensioners would have been very happy to take any of the above home.....Golden Slippers, Inters Heat winners, Interdominion horses....quality no matter what criteria you apply.

Rocket_Reign

These country tracks are getting shut down / on the brink of being shutdown due to turnover issues, there was recently a meeting between Rwwa and about 25 of the younger harness racing participants drivers/trainers where these things were discussed.

Turnover when Covid restricted our tracks so Kellerberrin was racing at Gloucester Park and Wagin at Bunbury etc sky rocketed. The general consensus at the meeting was that if these tracks need to close to sustain our future then so be it.

The way it is at the moment we’re struggling for stake increases due to harness not contributing enough but if we don’t get stake increases then the life of training becomes less sustainable.

JayJay

Would have thought that young trainers need old owners but clearly wrong. "Yes Minister 101".....You always get the result you want when you only speak to those who agree with you and never call an inquiry unless you already know what conclusions it will reach. Typical divide and rule tactics, bully and discredit anyone who dares to disagree.

As the bulldozers rev up around the regions, it will be out the door for me, which will doubtless be a relief for many. Off to play scrabble at the lifestyle village whilst the 6 remaining stables duke it out to the death racing for a tray of scones. Meanwhile,  a pre- programmed computer (minus any paid human intervention) nestled away in a cupboard at Hasler drive will administer the industry through its death throes in front of 20 geriatric life members at GP, all being coerced into singing "We love the NBM".

Chariotsonfire

JayJay I believe the meeting was called by the younger brigade and not RWWA as they were concerned for their future with stakes on hold.

JayJay

As is their entitlement, get with the trend, everyone else does it. If you don't like what is going on, form a new association, bypass established pathways. ........you have the "young trainers" calling a meeting, Harness Racing Owners Association (Glen Moore's crowd) calling a meeting, the Professional Trainers calling a meeting, there is BOTRA, there is WASBA there is the Country Trotting Council or whatever it is called (WACHRA..Bruce Jones' crowd), Squaregaiters Association, Gloucester Park Committee having profound influence, Harness Racing Consultative Group......more factions than a political party, all having secretive little squirrel meetings.

So, I absolutely stand by what I said......divided we are and ruled we are, an impotent industry. You can, according to whatever gathering you wish pay membership to and attend, come away with multiple different outcomes that may leave you feeling warm and fuzzy for a day or two but ultimately, what good do all these different groups do? They are often at odds with each other but the prevailing wisdom for decades has been to gradually shut down everything except those tracks convenient to a few big operations that big owners prefer to race at.

So enough of death by a 1000 cuts, stop stuffing about, shut down everything except GP, Pinjarra and Bunbury, get rid of Kellerberrin, Albany, Wagin, Narrogin, Collie, Williams, Busselton, Bridgetown....not sure whether they want to persist with Northam. Centralise and prosper, watch turnover explode. But I suspect it will be a nip here, a nip there....Bridgetown goes this season, cut Williams back to one meeting, snip a couple off Collie, wind back Busso a bit at a time........that's what they want to do, so get on with it so we all know where we stand.

freodockers

Congratulations to the 25 “young” participants who took the initiative regarding their future.
I find it ironic though that it’s taken this amount of time to realise there’s an issue here.
Old people like JayJay and myself have been questioning the direction of the industry for some time and probably been regarded as fools.
To use Covid as a pointer for the future of the industry is ludicrous.
Anybody with half a business brain knows people were locked up and had nothing better to do but punt from the comfort of their lounge.
If the brains from RWWA are using this as a basis for their argument then they should be laughed out of town, they are bureaucrats looking after themselves.
It’s easy to say country clubs cost us money so close them down.
The real question is how did it get to this point.
Close them down as the industry is left with no option after 20 years of mismanagement but for ducks sake have a plan to go with it because if you don’t the next thing you will be doing is selling GP to exist.

savethegame

Covid was the cream for gambling codes-- irrspective where the meetings were held maybe a slight preference to night meeting but what was the underlying factor was people receiving job seeker payments.  Alot people recieved more in payments then actual were getting in paypackets.prior.

Three million Australian's tapped into there super amount paid by the government  was 36 billion. People in other states in lockdown hit the punt  which W.A. Got product fees plus Tab touch went from 60,000 account holders to 109,000. the startling figures regards low income earners & the unemployed----

As the govt. rollout Indue cards across Australia which allow  a small cash componet with sole purpose of curtailing --Gambling & Alcohol. the squeeze will come back --Covid was lucky for the codes, also they put money away just in case racing was shut  to down --who was going to feed the horses cause owners don't hang ten with no returns.

 Old Dogs For A Hard Road-----Puppies to the Footpath  

Arapaho

Would think this group of young participants,depending on what you would call young, is a minority group.

Judging by the 54 trainers presenting horses at Pinjarra today, there was only 12 trainers, who were younger than 55 which produced 18 horses.

There was 42 trainers older than 55 of which 21 were older than 60 and a further 12 older than 70 years of age..

The unfortunate thing for these few young trainers, wanting to close these outer country tracks is, they don't realize that a lot of these older trainers, learnt there craft at these and other tracks that have already been closed and have only converged to the Pinjarra area because of necessity (closed tracks) or the want to remain in a industry ,they grew up in.

So when you have closed all these outer country tracks, remember, there won't be anyone coming from the bush to bolster your numbers.

The unfortunate reality is, that the MAJORITY of trainers judging by today's figures aren't going to be around much longer.

This industry has been going for over a hundred years and luckily our forefathers  of yesteryear went far and wide for the good of the sport involving as many communities  as possible, enticing many a participant along the way. thinking of us, the next generation.

The BUCKS don't stop with you.

Chariotsonfire

Increases in stakes announced this morning:

The stakes increases to take place from 1 February 2022 will include:

• Thoroughbreds – $10,000 increase in metropolitan Saturday base stakes;
• Harness – increase in the average metropolitan prime stakes of $2,965 and reinstatement of funding to allow both 10 races at Gloucester Park on a Friday night and 9 races on a Tuesday.
• Greyhounds – 10 per cent increase to base stakes across all race meeting types.

Further announcements to be made in May.

JayJay

And a good thing, never knock a stakes increase ....but......the 20% cut in stakes for the anticipated Covid inspired downturn in turnover (which never eventuated) has not been returned to owners. Costs for owners never decreased 20% in that time, turnover apparently took off but the money saved via the stakes cut has been put towards a future stakes increase for potentially different owners. A very unfair decision to not return the money. Those owners kept their horses in work, kept the industry going and yet get totally ignored in respect of rewarding their loyalty.

JayJay

One less pacing pensioner with this mornings news of the  passing of Ray Retzlaff, Im thinking New Bromac his best horse, first winner 1972 at Collie, Travacin, last winner Doc Ryan. Good fella.

VillageKid

JayJay said:

One less pacing pensioner with this mornings news of the  passing of Ray Retzlaff, Im thinking New Bromac his best horse, first winner 1972 at Collie, Travacin, last winner Doc Ryan. Good fella.

Sad news JJ.

Duane's Magic and Esteve were a couple of other very nice horses for Ray that raced in fast class in the late 1980s.

Chariotsonfire

Nice bloke. I nicknamed him "Rails Ray" as his first option was to head to the rails prior to the rails being removed.

Markovina

Yeah you are spot on - about the rails - back in the day he was an astute driver 

Early to mid 80s - it was the last race at a Frid night meeting - i won about 2-3 grand on one of his horses - might have been Duanes Magic - cant remember - 4 back the rails - then let  them all cut each others throats - and then get out at the top of the straight ( which he did with precision ) and then just go Whoosh - with a horse who had done no work at all 

White with the light green stripe - like a Navy uniform - and was there something about his helmet or skull cap - hed wear it on an upright angle - there was something about it 

savethegame

Late seventies early eighties--- Rails drivers --Poyser --R.W. Johnson--- T.Sheedy--- R.Retzlaff  Think it was freo. thing --Tickie---  if they didn't get out ----They do it every   week.some of  the horses ran for 12-18mths without a spell because they never had gut busters.   1x5 Type 2x10 was the way you played these drivers--  ---all Tophorseman