Pacing Pensioners

SLIPPERGOLDEN · December 2021

Okay pacing fanatics please tell me who are the elder statesmen on the WA Pacing front. Chris Lewis and Colin Brown have to be there. Others?

I venture to guess that no other driver in WA has won more races from the front than Colin Brown.

curmudgeon · December 2021

Ron Young has the above two on seniority but only spasmodically drives in races nowadays. Same with Greg Miles.

thefalcon · December 2021

how old was leo keys when he handed his whip in?

Ivorytrunkey86 · December 2021

Rod James was still driving a few years back in kal,would wear glasses thicker than submarine windows and take them off and put on a pair of safety glasses to drive the race.your senses were certainly heightened when you picked the fields up and saw rod was drawn outside you.

JayJay · December 2021

thefalcon said:
how old was leo keys when he handed his whip in?

Leo was only 62 when he died in 1972. I think his last winner (as a driver) was a mare called Sky Thunder a few years beforehand,who he bought over from NSW (bred by Noel Simpson. She made it to fast class, around a 2.13 front in the old days when we had a proper handicapping system.

curmudgeon · December 2021

Ivorytrunkey86 said:
Rod James was still driving a few years back in kal,would wear glasses thicker than submarine windows and take them off and put on a pair of safety glasses to drive the race.your senses were certainly heightened when you picked the fields up and saw rod was drawn outside you.

I have it on good authority that Rod "Camshaft " James is still firing on all cylinders and may well have been with members of the GMTC that were out at one of their regular busy bee clean-ups of the track & facilities this morning. Could race there tomorrow & the town is awash with workers looking for somewhere to spend their money. Some pretty determined types still kicking into the wind with optimism.

freodockers · December 2021

What about Neville “nifty” Sly.
No one in history has run more seconds.
Sly by name sly by nature as they say.
A very good driver would have matched it with the best in Perth.
Great farrier to go with it, if he turned up.

VillageKid · December 2021

Barry Guidice

savethegame · December 2021

VillageKid said:
Barry Guidice

V.K. you nail us with W.A Footy------- probably nailed everyone with harness-- he drove today his 76.

curmudgeon · December 2021

I will have to apologise to Baz...was talking to him last time I was at Pinny earlier in the year. Great fella.still enthusiastic & happy to be involved.

tony · December 2021

Brian Gath is driving in the trotters final at the interdominions on Saturday.

He is 76 and is on Illawong Stardust. It is his first inters final since 2008

VillageKid · December 2021

savethegame said:

VillageKid said:
Barry Guidice
V.K. you nail us with W.A Footy------- probably nailed everyone with harness-- he drove today his 76.

Barry is a former Swans Player STG.

Chariotsonfire · December 2021

Played with Barry at Swans and latter at Kelmscott in the old South Suburban Murray League when John Todd was coaching South Perth.

Good bloke and as tough as nails.

savethegame · December 2021

Kieth Biggs of Doremius fame has told me a few times he played with Bill Walker or against him when-- Leonora played against Gwalia. May have even been before he went Swans.

But whopper did tell a racing writer he was born under a maroon bush between Leonora-Laverton that went to print.

Bill Walker read he never started at swans till he was 19. so a possability ? anything V.K. or Chariots

JayJay · December 2021

??? Bill hailed from Narembeen, farmers there forever, his old man was Butch Walker. My uncle was the copper there for decades. Take with a lake-full of salt I suspect.

Chariotsonfire · December 2021

Bill was related to Jim Schrader in some way.

Markovina · December 2021

Jim Schrader - i wasnt his biggest fan - not by along way

However i can remember the 82 Inter Dom at GP - i went to all the heats and final - the Popular Alm - Rhetts Law ( hah ) one

There was alot of intrigue - will the 2 champion Victorian pacers - namely Gammalite and Popular Alm come - all to do with Plane availabilty - their coming - their not coming - their coming - Gammalites connections got sick of it and pulled the pin - where as Popular Alm - i think it arrived on the afternoon of the 1st round of heats - they put up 4-1 and i had a substantial bet on that - Brian Hancock had a couple of B graders - real B Graders - like Jikk Adios and Popular Alm kicked their brains in - bookmakers immediately installed Popular Alm even money favourite for the final

Now the Jim Schrader bit - on the 2nd round of heats - i am allmost certain Schrader won a heat on a big priced horse - around 20-1 - came from well back in the field - and im pretty sure it beat Popular Alm - Jimmy The Jet burst the Popular Alm bubble in the 2nd round of the heats

savethegame · December 2021

Jim Schrader drove Society Guy to victory third round of heats---He drove Skiptar in the final

Markovina · December 2021

Who did it beat in that 3rd round heat - i reckon Popular Alm was in that heat - and Schraders horse beat it

savethegame · December 2021

He did beat Popular Alm---- He sat in the breeze last two laps Society Guy . Racebook states P.Alm was three-wide first lap was leader at the bell. over 2625m. Also mentioned Rhetts Law thundered home from 10th at the bell. to be third

Same series Pure Steel was unplaced in all heats and was retired

JayJay · December 2021

Yep, SG and Jimmy The Jet breezed and beat Poppy, my old race book says Rhetts Law 3rd but I don't recall the race even though I was there? Also says he paid $27.80 for the win and I think it was a 50 cent tote unit back then. I do recall the final. Rhetts Law was far from the greatest Inters winner, a long way from it but time and place and a well rated Colin Warwick drive and he was never in doubt. Popular Alm raced well below his best it must be said.

Hancock did bring a couple over but hardly B graders. Jikk Adios was a top horse, won an APC, in fact had a 50% winning strike rate of 43 wins from 86 starts, 25 Harold Park wins, multiple feature race wins and over $250k in stakes (40 years ago). Out of Teeny Rena. Willadios not far behind, won races everywhere from Albion Park to Perth including a Fremantle Cup, 36 from 116 starts and over $180k. Jikk made it to the final but ran last, Willadios did not qualify for the final. Would accept that they under performed but definitely not B graders.

Markovina · December 2021

You mention Colin Warwick - he was a very good driver in my opinion - could have made a career of it - nice and relaxed in the cart -a bit of Shannon Sauvalko - re Colin Warwick -the driving style etc - didnt panic - no i rated Colin Warwick - i think he was Russel Roberts son in law

curmudgeon · December 2021

Jikk Adios & Willadios stayed at Milson Lodge in Armadale for the duration of the Inters. Willadios was entrusted to Lou Austin after the series & did win a Winter Cup or some such FFAll . Both were very nice entires.

savethegame · December 2021

What a Legend the little master B.GATH 76yrs ---- I Will just drive to Sydney Sat. morning 8-9hrs. have a little rest then keep poking along the fence and try win a trotters inters-- over 40 years since Markovina won pacers inters.for him.

JayJay · December 2021

Willadios won the 1982 Fremantle Cup for Lou ....trainer listed as B.P.Hancock....3200m race back then, had it's own identity, not just a prelude for the Pacing Cup. For heavens sake, revert to the stand and make it a proper handicap after (weeks after) the Pacing Cup, end of February maybe, and have a couple of preludes for the Pacing Cup to build interest. Everyone knows it makes sense but is RWWA/GP so convinced that they have the current formula spot on? Obviously they do.

JayJay · December 2021

Anyone who has ever walked past a book on marketing knows about "Point Of Difference". It differentiates one product from another......not just another ho hum mobile race for very good horses that is RBD and barrier draw dependent. Currently the Freo Cup and the Pacing Cup differ by about 350m and $150k and a week or so apart....but its the same horses in the same sort of race. Re- establish the stand, the eastern states don't have stands, don't sweat on it, promote it as a marketable difference market it as a "point of difference for different horses, emphasise the handicapping, build interest on who will get what handicap....will there be an up and comer off the front taking on the big boys from the back, market it as "purple" night with a substantial Freo atmosphere, get Fyfe to present the cup or whatever...fish and chips stalls, sardines, multicultural ethnicity theme. Run the stand Northam Cup a fortnight before hand, first 3 automatic starts.

Whenever I criticise something, the "fans" come out from the woodwork, you are just a negative old pie thrower etc, living in the past, no new thoughts etc.....well there's a few starter ideas but the odds are nothing will change.

savethegame · December 2021

Brilliant Idea like the concept of Northam Cup fortnight before first 3 get automatic start in Freo Cup both stands leading points scorer from combining both races to earn extra 5k.

Problem the managers get the same paypacket be it 500 patrons or 10 thousand so no need to go making working for themselves with extra staff & security --them days are long gone so instead having 5 or 6 king nights through your season----they roll 3 into one..

freodockers · December 2021

100% correct STG.
It’s been a slow death for most clubs despite efforts of members. Local input hard to recognise from an office in Perth.
I know personally I busted my arse in Kal to keep it going when I was there. Understandably those in Perth didn’t recognise the work that was put in with no direct connection.
I was not alone there were many others over the years who got burned in the long run.
It is what it is but the connection with clubs, members was lost a long time ago.
Important to remember Kal was competitive on turnover with all country clubs yet they still closed it down. Back then it was all about turnover so what does that tell you.

Markovina · December 2021

Re Kal - i was thinking today - and actually looked it up

Mildura in Vic - seem to have a stack of meetings - id say 30-35 a year - one on today/tonight - 11 race card - and most of those meetings there is a 20k or 12 free for all - incredible

Now Mildura is 550k from Melb and Kal is 590k from Perth - so it has got the tyranny of distance problem

It has 2 small advantages = it has Swan Hill sort of nearby - who would have 8-10 meetings a year - and Mildura do get a few ( but not alot ) SA visitors - which help with field numbers

But 70% of the horses who race their are based their - and alot of them arent much good but they go around every week - and thats the only place they race - you will very rarely see a Mildura horse at Bendigo or Melton or Geelong - its too far - and they are not good enough

As for drivers - 8-10 fly to meetings - so Kal could do the same - but Mildura have got a huge population of very ordinary pacers - Kal havent got that - that is problem no 1 - and its a big problem

The 2nd problem - and i dont know how Vic balance the books - but where do Vic - get all this revenue stream from - to provide 35 meetings - 10 race cards - for Mildura - WA havent got that money

JayJay · December 2021

There seems to be zero imagination emanating from RWWA re a country cups promotion or sequenced programming like they have in Victoria. It's same old, same old with almost zero publicity, but the clubs would need to come on board as well. They promote the hell out of the Vic country cups circuit and punch up the prizemoney accordingly. When we had a Harness Racing Manager, I recall discussing at length and receiving a relatively positive response to setting up a promotable tiered circuit. Advertise, promote and give plenty of advance notice. Run them at suitable times to maximise attendance re holiday venues. Divide into bronze, silver or gold or C class, B class and A class....whatever you want to call them. So, with plenty up for negotiation, the basic idea was Collie, Bridgetown, Williams, Busselton, Wagin and Kellerberrin at the base level of $10k for the lower grade of horses (and maybe the old Merredin and Cunderdin Cups could be revived as part of a winter series at Central Wheatbelt with a points system and a bonus payment to apply to the overall winner. At the next level , Albany, Harvey, Narrogin at say the $20k level with A grade $50k level for the top liners at Pinjarra and Bunbury. Northam, being a traditional stand, to link up with a revamped, repositioned standing start Fremantle Cup as a $30k qualifier. Now, this was a thought bubble and may/would/probably almost certainly need to be thought through and mapped out but as the great John Kennedy said "Do something". Lets try some innovative thought rather than just watching current programming stagnate even more as we change nothing. Innovation and providing "point of difference" with the opposition is not against the law. And for goodness sake, fire up Kalgoorlie for a couple of meetings across the round, work in with the gallops and return the round to being an actual round.The "new business model" needs to be far more than a very questionable conditioned handicapping system, some very ho hum birdcage and on track twitter feeds and 30 second grabs on course that may or may not have market penetration.

getthechange · December 2021

Hi Chariots - Bill Walker and Jim Schrader are cousins - their mothers are twin sisters

G'day Punter!

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