Betting Move

Gilgamesh · March 2015

R7 tonight at Bunbury at 9.15 Betta Go Bolt has been 21 into 3.60 fixed odds with 365. In the G Kersley stable, weak race, couldn't see him wasting his time if it wasn't any good.

JayJay · March 2015

It wins....beaten 55m last start.

Gilgamesh · March 2015

21 into 2.60 fixed odds. Don't know what kind of volume of money we're looking at but still a good move, was still 9 this afternoon and takes a fair bit more money to move them that close to the race (has been my experience anyhow trying to get on 5 minutes after they have gone up compered to a few hours out when the market has shown itself a bit more).

Probably wouldn't want it over again but they got the money.

Gilgamesh · March 2015

Trial form reads pretty good for that race though, think it was really a case of them getting the market wrong. Like I said though don't know what sort of money they would allow on as they do get a few a long way wrong so if they were holding too much I couldn't see them going up the day before. Mister Hannible 36 odd into 3.20 and Lukey 16 into 3 odd a month or so back similar case were yes there was a good betting go but the market they put up was just a mile off.

G Kersley doing a good job with a handful of lowly graded horses at the moment.

JayJay · March 2015

Hope it freely provides a urine sample.

AndrewCarter · March 2015

Bit uncalled for JJ, G Kersley has put his head down and worked very hard and continues to do so and you only to have check out who was the the previous trainer to realise that considerable improvement was possible.
Think you will find and I just checked after reading this that it was an RO race as well so it wouldn't have to been anything special to beat the usual standard of that type of field that's for sure.
Hate to think how many top horses the previous trainer ripped up even back in his heyday, let alone now, I wouldn't give the previous trainer a hobby horse.
One thing is for certain G J has always been a very talented horseman and if it was their money I hope they managed to get something as I think you would find that any early fluctuations wouldn't be worth the paper they're written on.
As for the supposed prices on 365 I can't imagine who managed to get on, if anyone actually got on for anything at those sort of odds as they've barred everyone with any semblance of an idea.
May as well have been 100/1 because they're basically fiction what they put up these days as no one can get on, especially on WA trots.

grandstandjockeys · March 2015

andrew carter the president of the G kersley fan club

TheDiva · March 2015

He's right about 365, the markets have no meaning.

Gilgamesh · March 2015

I can tell you personally I have been able to get on to win about 3 and a half grand 5 mins after they have gone up, considering we are talking about what I think is a very risky market for them I think that is pretty good. I can't get on for that anymore, if I try to have a decent bet on a trotter in an early market now it gets "reffered to a trader" and I consistently get about $9.18 on at the adverised.

Yesterday when the horse was $9 I had no problem getting $100 ew on. Not big money I know but considering the prize money for winning the race was around $1500 I personally think they are doing a reasonable job offering up the fixed odds service they do. From all the comments on here I was expecting 365 to be terrible. I've only started using them this year and have found them ok, yes they have started to restrict my early bets but I just don't bother looking until a few hours out from race day now. Not talking sheep stations but i'm up a signigicant amount in a 3 month time frame, all on one code were they have got there markets completely wrong, the way it was talked thought that would be enough to stop me in my tracks.

Personally i'm wrapped to have Kersley training a few. Don't know the guy at all but obviously has a strong history, nice to gace someone else getfing some horses to go consistently. On this horses breeding it probably cost a packet so I hope they got something back.

Gilgamesh · March 2015

Looking at it another way, i'd say depending on who tried to get on early in the move down from the 21 to the 2.60 it came into they may have stood it for between 10 and 20 grand, maybe more maybe less.

That is still a far better service to the local harness punter than the tab who opened it up $2.90 fixed 5 minutss before the race jumped!

JayJay · March 2015

Perhaps so Andrew, perhaps so, but fancy being lectured to about what is or isn't uncalled for on this forum by someone who describes it as "a toilet", who routinely explodes into vitriol without warning and who then sets about denigrating R.J.Retzlaff in the same post. An absolute golden moment in hypocrisy.

AndrewCarter · March 2015

I didn't mention names (you did) and I would think some of the early money at supposedly factual big odds would more than likely would have been based on speculation alone with the training and driving change and justifiably so but seriously you would have to have rocks in your head to send a horse to the previous trainer on driving ability (with any semblance of a decent driver behind them) alone it's worth four or five lengths and yes your comment was entirely uncalled for especially as G Kersley has never had any of his horses return a positive.
I'm sure G J would be the first to admit he's made mistakes along the way if you asked him but how long should someone keep paying for those mistakes, he's had a gallop licence for now I would think at least 3 years and hasn't put a foot wrong, give some credit where credit is due mate.

Ever heard of time, patience and gaiting a horse properly???

AndrewCarter · March 2015

Yes and with comments likes yours JJ you've exposed as being a hypocrite and yes at times the place is a bloody toilet (have no idea why you took that so personally as it wasn't directed at you but if you took it that way, bad luck).
If some of the comments made on here weren't so vindictive and vile by people with agenda's and basically little to no idea, it would be hilarious as some of the inanity that pours forth from what can only be consistently losing punters makes it worth a look as generally they couldn't be more wrong.
I've said it before and I'll say it again if people attack me then they're going to get it back in spades I've put up with enough crap to last several lifetimes and have no tolerance for it anymore I've never made the first move but by god if they attack me, I'll damn well finish it.
Anyway that's digressing from the subject at hand.

AndrewCarter · March 2015

Gilga I reckon on 365 it would be far closer to five grand than 10 or 20 on WA trots on a Saturday night please, no disrespect mate but every trots punter I know with even half a brain got barred by them, if your over a certain percentage of winners or consistently back horses that firm even if unsuccessful if you're a WA punter you're watched like a hawk.
Don't know if you have any idea or not Gilga but if do or take any multi's that you collect on anything resembling a regular basis at the WA trots you will get effectively barred so quick it will make your head spin.

Why on earth our government doesn't duplicate the NSW legislation but make it for all three codes and force the corporates and tab's to bet you fixed odds to the own course betting limits and make it a level playing field beggars belief.

Don't swallow all the TAB propaganda about taking money away from the industry that money gets laid off on the tote in droves by the corporates who in turn are offered "benefits" by the TAB's that no ordinary punter will ever have made available to them but I'm sure you probably already know that.

Chariotsonfire · March 2015

I looked at the 365 prices during the day and noticed that Betta Go Bolt was $26 and $5.50 and as it had won a weak trial in sound time against opposition similar to what it was meeting at Bunbury I thought it was worth a small bet at that price. Sorry Andrew, I know you consider trials a waste of time.

I submitted a bet for $10 x $30 and was cut back to $7 by $25 so any suggestion that they may have stood it for $10-$20k in early betting is laughable to the extreme.

Happy to cop the considerable overs for a small profit but if you show any indication that you have some idea you will be cut back to nothing.

AndrewCarter · March 2015

I never once said chariots that trials were a waste of time, what I said or something along those lines is that at times they can be misleading, they are a useful guide not the be all and end all and it depends on how clever the trainer is, some are better than others at making them look average at trials. There aren't any prizes for winning trials or winning trials impressively.

Gilgamesh · March 2015

Yep boys I understand what you're saying but I can only talk from my experiences as you have and in the past i've been able to back one to win over 3500 in one bet on a tuesday C2, the day prior I had backed one to win around the 1500 range that got up at around a quarter of the price it opened at. I'm going to assume that I wasnt the only one lucky enough to get on the horse so from that my expectation is that they would be willing to hold around that figure on a runner. I have also had other times were i've only been able to get $8 on. Obviously it depends on who is trying to back it and how much they are already standing it for. As none of us work at 365 we can only work on how they've delt with us in the past and speculate.

Chariotsonfire · March 2015

The point about he trial was Andrew that there is no way that I would have backed Betta Go Bolt even with the trainer change if it had not trialled well.

The trial, the trainer change and the driver change were all significant factors when assessing the race.

All I know about 365 is that if you win and specialise in one code and state over a period you will be not be able to bet to win more than $200 if you are lucky.

AndrewCarter · March 2015

Think I can get on for $1.96 on the trots or something equally ridiculous

AndrewCarter · March 2015

You really do have an agenda don't you lincoln, (not wrong I just don't highlight personal matters that have zero to do with the industry unlike your good self, you really are pathetic mate) that was a personal matter that had nothing to do with on course or the industry and the persons involved were well out of order which it why was treated in the manner it was. I'm sure you're bloody perfect not.
Boy there are some absolute arseholes within this game who love schadenfreude. (I suggest you find a dictionary as seriously doubt that you will understand the meaning of the word)
I picked you a long time ago as being one of them and I was spot on.

AbbysAce · March 2015

Opened up $23 fixed on Luxbet.
Was $23,$17,$14,$10,$7.50, $4.80
So someone was backing it.

youknowit · March 2015

Andrew Carter. You must be a very very successful punter if Bet 365 only let you have 1 96 bets. Wow.I know you are a self promoted genius and now a form guru and super punter as well. No wonder you abuse and slag of us mere mortals. We are so far below your lofty standards.

thefalcon · March 2015

just a clash of egos, methinks..... :-B

ColourfulRD · March 2015

A Carter unlike everyone else gets his facts in order before he prints anything (so he has informed us many times). Give it a rest Andrew, it's not hard to admit you made a mistake

youknowit · March 2015

Have known Andrew Carter for about 25 years and do know a bit of his history. Never known him to be that big a punter as he makes out or that clever!

AndrewCarter · March 2015

No problem admitting if I make a mistake, I never have had any problem in doing so and never will but there was no mistake on this occasion as journalists deal all the time with stuff that isn't relevant or is not in the public interest
There's plenty of things I know about that I wouldn't talk about on this toilet or in the media because they're not relevant.
Stuff that has no relevant public interest is often not published it's as simple as that its called exercising discretion, a skill that some on here need to urgently learn.
After what the other parties involved did they were damn lucky they didn't fare a hell of a lot worse, do you really think the authorities here were going to let G Kersley off with a fine if he wasn't entirely justified in his actions?
There's two sides to every story and I would suggest that Lincoln has little to no knowledge of the actual incident and the circumstances involved and that is the last I am going to say about it.

AndrewCarter · March 2015

Never have I once said that I was a big punter, 1000 bucks generally sees me out if I really, really, like something but you don't have to be a particularly big punter if you can string together a couple of horses in a multi.

I however have consistently won over the last five years as was forced to survive off it and pay off my case debts with my punting, when you do that you have to become a lot smarter and for the first time just about ever I managed to gradually get a bit of a bank behind myself.
Also seeing I basically haven't been attending the races on anything resembling a regular basis for the last 8 years I would suggest that youknowitm whoever he is, has very little idea about what I do or don't do anymore.
Anyway 365 cut me off after the third race on derby day without warning a few years ago while attending the Melbourne Cup carnival, it cost me a small fortune on the day as well ( as was planning to unload on Zoustar in the Coolmore and on Red Tracer in the Group 1 mares) as I had a heap in there and only a small amount in betfair and elsewhere and only enough cash on me that was required for entertainment and expenses on the day and couldn't put anything in anywhere until I had returned to where I was staying in Melbourne later that night. Believe what you want but the tips I post elsewhere for feature races speak for themselves as does the various feature race previews I've written and had published over the years.
Always been a good judge but in the past a relatively poor punter but you learn by your mistakes and I did that a long time ago, you can still lapse and make mistakes and have poor days but they're not debilitating like they were in the past as having a bank means you can always reset and start again if you have a bad day and I've never had that luxury previously.
I can assure you having a decent bank can make a world of difference to your approach but you also need to learn by your mistakes and it took me a while but I did, it's still a work in progress but you never stop learning and I now know how to win far more often than not and isn't that the key.
Also if youknowit actually "knew" me very well he wouldn't be hiding his identity from me and I could then very easily ascertain if he was full of shiit or not as very few people know what I actually do or don't do currently in regard to my punting, just because you haven't learned by your mistakes mate, doesn't mean that others can't.

Fastmoney · March 2015

Plenty of I`s in that post.

Not sure anyone's that interested in your life story.

Youknowit`s version might be more entertaining.

AndrewCarter · March 2015

Entertaining perhaps fast but I suspect very far from the truth but then again that's what quite a few on here specialise in, don't they, things that are very far from the truth and there's a long and proven history of that on this toilet.

youknowit · March 2015

On this toilet Andrew!! I suggest you are one that makes it so. A 1000 dollar bet is about your top bet nowdays!! You have come a long way from the times you went to the races betting in 5s and 10s. Must be that job you have. Think i will remain anonymous for a while longer but you do know me. Must say they are great stories you toss up. A laugh a minute!!

ColourfulRD · March 2015

This from someone who was known as Lets Elope

Do I see on your fartbook page your have given yourself the title of Racing Editor at the Sunday Times, and you don't go the the races?

G'day Punter!

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