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Mrs Waterhouse's and Mr Waller's Latest Strike Rate

East Coast Racing
JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
edited December 2014 East Coast Racing
Racing NSW lists 296 horses in Mrs Waterhouse's "Current Stable". Presumeably, this includes spelling horses, yet to race 2 year olds etc. So, using the assumption that a third of them are actually racing - just an assumption mind you- lets settle on roughly 100 racing animals. Since November the 16th, Mrs Waterhouse has had 50 starters across New South Wales. Of these, there have been 9 winners, just 2 of them in full stakes (Saturday!!) races with 7 provincial or mid week city stakes. No feature race winners at the Melbourne carnival. Maybe a lean patch and she has historically done well with Magic Millions starters (on volume alone some would say) but on the surface, at $3.5 to $4k a month (estimate), not a lot of value in having a horse stabled at Tulloch Lodge.
By Comparison, Racing NSW lists 300 horses as Waller's current stable. Of his last 50 starters (since December 13th - he has a lot more runners than Mrs Waterhouse), he has trained just 6 winners, 3 of them full Saturday Stakes and 3 provincial or mid week city. Losing streak of 26, coincidentally since being fined that 30k for his embarrassing stable error.
Now this could all change in a blink of an eye given the sheer numbers but it puts all this leading trainer sobriquet's that get thrown around into perspective.
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SLIPPERGOLDEN likes this post.

Comments

  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    8,451 posts
    edited December 2014
    A very interesting post Jay Jay
    +1 -1
  • Thoroly_BreadThoroly_Bread    2,348 posts
    $3.5-$4k bahahahaha please, it's all a numbers game they have the numbers they will get the winners and group1 winners, I'll confess I'm not a Waterhouse fan and am so so on Waller he is a freak! Let's not forget the Carnaval is over so all
    The good horses are away
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  • Thoroly_BreadThoroly_Bread    2,348 posts
    $3.5-$4k bahahahaha please, it's all a numbers game they have the numbers they will get the winners and group1 winners, I'll confess I'm not a Waterhouse fan and am so so on Waller he is a freak! Let's not forget the Carnaval is over so all
    The good horses are away

    Thoroly_Bread likes this post.

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  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    8,451 posts
    Thank you TB. I didn't understand it the first time
    :D

    thefalcon, Thoroly_Bread, RIO, Carlosa likes this post.

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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,483 posts
    then you read where waller trains 3 or 4 out of 8 and tris or quinellas a couple of them.
    its all swings and roundabouts.

    Thoroly_Bread, SHOVHOG likes this post.

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  • Thoroly_BreadThoroly_Bread    2,348 posts
    edited December 2014
    Maybe to much eggnog slip haha..!! Dunno what happened there!!
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  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    8,451 posts
    edited December 2014

    :D

    More Nog than Egg probably.

    Thoroly_Bread likes this post.

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  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    8,451 posts
    Hey spot the forum members who don't have to play Santa tonight.
    ;))

    RIO, Thoroly_Bread likes this post.

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  • SHOVHOGSHOVHOG    1,792 posts
    Wa
    the falcon said:

    then you read where waller trains 3 or 4 out of 8 and tris or quinellas a couple of them.
    its all swings and roundabouts.

    Couldn't agree more. Waterhouse has parted ways with some of her biggest clients to start scaling back. She is in a transition.
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  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    297 in the stable and a **** load to come from the upcoming sales, albeit via horse breakers and pre-trainers - is she scaling back? I know Denise Martin took free agency and went to Waller and others have gotten wary (or wise). Hasn't really been in the leading trainer battle for some years now - all well and good, so will they please start interviewing someone who doesn't carry on like a startled Pomeranian on speed? Waller always measured and humble by comparison.
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  • SHOVHOGSHOVHOG    1,792 posts
    edited December 2014
    She promotes racing to different types what don't you understand about that ? Racing is dead in the water because it's an old mans game stuck in the dark ages.

    She's a likeable personality and the punters that listen to the tips deserve what they get.

    SLIPPERGOLDEN, thefalcon likes this post.

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  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    edited December 2014
    @SHOVHOG Gai is just as conservative as may of those 'old men'. I wouldn't mind betting Waller employs double the amount of women in key positions.
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  • SHOVHOGSHOVHOG    1,792 posts
    edited December 2014
    so Jay Jay pulls out a nice stat to suit his story.

    In October this year she had 88 starters 25% strike rate and 45% place rate.... Why didn't you go back that far ?

    Here's some career stats. Win strike rate.

    Waterhouse 18%
    Waller 14 %
    Moody 17%
    Durrant 17%
    John Hawkes 16%
    Peter Snowden 15 %
    Hayes 12 %
    Wier 15 %

    Let's hang her on her last 6 weeks haha. I like most of your posts but this is just rubbish jay jay.

    She's a brilliant trainer and a brilliant promoter of racing.
    If you don't like her that's a personal choice but the above 2 statements are facts so you will have to deal with it.

    Carlosa likes this post.

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  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    8,451 posts
    edited December 2014
    Shovhog don't be too harsh on Jay Jay because no matter how many winners she trains Gai Waterhouse can never undo the atrocious acting delivered to TV viewers on the Young Doctors.

    SHOVHOG, Thoroly_Bread, Carlosa likes this post.

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  • paraleticparaletic    3,750 posts
    Waller is a cheat and I don't trust him, if I owned Junoob I would have been down the stable the next day with a few Tony Sopranos to claim my winning funds that I had to pay back.
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  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    L-A-T-E-S-T strike rate, that's latest!!!!!!!. Last 50 starters for each, no selective stats to support the "story". No one is hanging anyone, the facts are the latest 50 starts for each aren't too flash. Mentioned a lean patch prior to Magic Millions, lack of success in Melbourne is a longer trend...of course its swings and roundabouts but with so many horses, many of them the "top priced" lots from sales, you might expect better. That's all.........sorry for having a differing view. I'll try to not express anymore "rubbish" so as not to offend you.
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  • SHOVHOGSHOVHOG    1,792 posts
    edited December 2014
    Thank you Jay Jay. Merry Christmas
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  • magoo83magoo83    969 posts
    SHOVHOG said:

    so Jay Jay pulls out a nice stat to suit his story.

    In October this year she had 88 starters 25% strike rate and 45% place rate.... Why didn't you go back that far ?

    Here's some career stats. Win strike rate.

    Waterhouse 18%
    Waller 14 %
    Moody 17%
    Durrant 17%
    John Hawkes 16%
    Peter Snowden 15 %
    Hayes 12 %
    Wier 15 %

    Let's hang her on her last 6 weeks haha. I like most of your posts but this is just rubbish jay jay.

    She's a brilliant trainer and a brilliant promoter of racing.
    If you don't like her that's a personal choice but the above 2 statements are facts so you will have to deal with it.

    She is a cheat & her son is a bookie
    Sorry brother not for me
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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,483 posts
    waller 3 out of 6 so far today....
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  • The_BullThe_Bull    929 posts
    If you think your getting away with $3.5-4k / month for one in full racing mode with one of these two you are deluding yourself.

    thefalcon, Thoroly_Bread likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Some more un-researched hot air - 10 Waterhouse starters so far this weekend across 4 tracks - Sandown, Moonee Valley, Cantebury and Gold Coast for no winners (Two 3rds). Has 24 trialling on Tuesday at Randwick- maybe things will start to turn around with the young ones coming to hand. Just stating the facts.
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  • SHOVHOGSHOVHOG    1,792 posts
    Keep at it Jay jay you old battler you.

    JayJay likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Haha, it's all good. My luck will run out, Aunty Gai will train a motza of winners shortly and I'll have to retire hurt....back to the Nursing Home. Getting old is a terrible thing and you really struggle to find ways to fill in the day when you cant do jackshit and you become increasingly irrelevant. However, seriously, she is not enjoying the best of runs at the moment.
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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    http://www.dynamicsyndications.com/news/DYNAMIC-turns-GAI-as-WATERHOUSE---WATT-become-the-Ultimate-
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  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Where do I sign up? Got a great idea to drop all my super and shares into a couple of Dynamics purchases. Dean Watt, here I come.
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  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    edited December 2014
    Results must be contextualised to what was spent to get them. This is what makes Gai as far from a 'brilliant' trainer that there could be, and when she does have a modest period, it really is a pathetic result.

    Someone I knew did some decent numbers a few years back, examining the 'returns' from the big boys.

    I.e. looking at ratio of $ spent on yearlings, training, vets to $ prizemoney earnt etc. This was pre-Waller.

    Gai's numbers were pitiful, as were most others. Her business model relies on clients not being aware of such facts. A lot of the smoke and mirrors would be on that 'lotto ticket' hope of getting a sire prospect like Sebring and selling it for squllions.

    Anyone who thinks she's a 'master' trainer needs a rethink. Someone like a Durrant or Warwick , or even an owner like Bob Peters, would have a ratio multiple times hers ...

    SPUDLEY likes this post.

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  • The_BullThe_Bull    929 posts
    She trained the trifecta in the slipper a few years ago. She's won a Melbourne Cup, a Cox Plate, Countless other G1's. Horses don't leave her stable and improve. I don't know what more you want her to do? I reckon she's as brilliant as they come.
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  • goosegoose    1,638 posts
    Darkshines part of Gai being a great trainer is her ability to manage the whole deal that is half the battle there is probably alot of great horseman around but they just wouldn't cope with the added pressure of running the show. Give her credit she thrives on it and does alot to promote racing.

    squid69, thefalcon likes this post.

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  • magoo83magoo83    969 posts
    She is just the name and face of the operation, if she didn't have the good staff she has, she would be nothing

    thefalcon likes this post.

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  • goosegoose    1,638 posts
    You could say that about any number of organisations but put one of the staff in charge and watch it all go down the tube she is obviously a brilliant manager same as Waller must be.

    squid69 likes this post.

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