The Positive Swab of Starry Heights

FairCraic69 · January 31

I remember watching Bart Cummings being interviewed once and when asked about stable staff that had to start early am at bakers’ hours and work for not a lot of money he was quoted as saying…

“Well we are employing the unemployable”

Now if Poor Old Starry Heights did test positive to Ritalin by some form of “environmental contamination.” by a racing industry person The defence should be looking for someone with ADHD which often looks like:

Chronic procrastination.

Disorganisation at work or home

Starting lots of things, finishing few

Emotional sensitivity or mood swings

Feeling overwhelmed easily

Poor follow-through despite good intentions

History of being told you’re “lazy” or “not living up to potential”

NO WONDER BART TRAINED 11 CUP WINNERS

Missymoo1 · February 3

Not just someone with ADHD. Ritalin is apparently the number one party drug among young people so contamination could have come from anywhere. Grant and Alana had other runners that day, one of those in a million dollar race. Why would they treat only that horse??? The others were swabbed and came back negative. I feel for them as this could happen to anyone in this day and age with the amount of drugs in our society

FairCraic69 · February 3

Missymoo1 we all know chatGPT is not always the most accurate source, but upon asking it says:

No — there’s no credible evidence that Ritalin (methylphenidate) is currently the “number 1 party drug” among young people. In fact, research and drug-use surveys consistently show that Ritalin misuse is relatively uncommon compared with other substances like cannabis, alcohol, cocaine, MDMA/ecstasy and even illicit stimulants.

Bottom line is the drug was detected, and Rules of Racing say as a licence holder you are required to present a horse drug Free...

It's All Speculation Until Stewards reach a conclusion and they state they want to Wrap it up fast for all concerned Let's See

Missymoo1 · February 3

No chat GPT used. It’s from a university study in Sydney

Arapaho · February 3

According to all reports released to the the public that I have read,Ritalinic Acid was only positive in the blood sample post race and not in the urine sample.

Correct me if I am wrong,if the horse had not unfortunately broken down and Euthanized and had won the race this positive may have gone undetected as to my knowledge in most cases blood is only taken post race if urine samples are not obtained after certain period of time.

Pinballwizard · February 3

Arapaho said:
According to all reports released to the the public that I have read,Ritalinic Acid was only positive in the blood sample post race and not in the urine sample.
Correct me if I am wrong,if the horse had not unfortunately broken down and Euthanized and had won the race this positive may have gone undetected as to my knowledge in most cases blood is only taken post race if urine samples are not obtained after certain period of time.

Clears from the blood much quicker than urine

Arapaho · February 3

Pinballwizard said:

Arapaho said:
According to all reports released to the the public that I have read,Ritalinic Acid was only positive in the blood sample post race and not in the urine sample.
Correct me if I am wrong,if the horse had not unfortunately broken down and Euthanized and had won the race this positive may have gone undetected as to my knowledge in most cases blood is only taken post race if urine samples are not
Clears from the blood much quicker than urine

Correct ,So as mentioned by The_Bull in another thread time frames regarding Methylphenidate, Ritalin and its Metalobite Ritalinic Acid going through a horses system would be of the upmost of importance in this case..

Precision1 · February 3

If all of their horses are going to race as usual from now on under Donna Riordans name as per nomms for this week then just let them train in their own right until it’s sorted. It’s farcical to pretend what we can all see is going on is not actually going on

Yarracoola · February 3

I honestly believe Grant & Alana are innocent (Not Guilty) they would not risk their livelihood for the sake of Winning a Kalgoorlie Cup.

Human Medication Exposure A Handler, Rider, Strapper or Barrier Attendant Taking ADHD Medication,

Contamination of Grooming Gear,Rugs,Stable Doors,Float Handles ETC

Even tiny amounts can be enough to show a Positive Swab.

Cross Contamination from Shared Spaces,Tack Rooms, Vehicles, Shared Wash Bays, Human Medication Stored in Same area as Horse Gear Tongue Tie, Bridle ETC can all lead to a minute amount which can lead to a Positive Ritalinic Acid Swab.

scenic11 · February 4

It would take a fair amount of the drug Ritalin in a 450kg to 500kg horse's bloodstream to result in a positive swab.
Far more than could be transferred from just touching a horses bridle or head region.
The levels the stewards are sitting on would have to prove this.

If the positive was from a hair sample, maybe someone touching it's head could be a believable excuse.
Still doesn't explain how Ritalin entered its bloodstream.
It had to be administered by someone. Whether that be the trainers or someone else, who really knows?
It is the responsibility of the two trainers to ensure this does not happen.
It is also possible one of the two trainers administered the drug without telling the other one?
The female trainer is notoriously antivax/anti drug so I don't think she would.

Rodent · February 4

Is it possible that a trainer can have a protocol for using performance enhancing drugs that they know they can get away with and all is good until something unforeseen happens? Horse gets swabbed under totally different circumstances to what has been budgeted for and voila, a positive swab.

Hypothetical situation and nothing to do with the Williams camp. Just wondering if it's possible.

Thrawn · February 4

Arapaho said:

Pinballwizard said:

Arapaho said:
According to all reports released to the the public that I have read,Ritalinic Acid was only positive in the blood sample post race and not in the urine sample.
Correct me if I am wrong,if the horse had not unfortunately broken down and Euthanized and had won the race this positive may have gone undetected as to my knowledge in most cases blood is only taken post race if urine samples are not
Clears from the blood much quicker than urine
Correct ,So as mentioned by The_Bull in another thread time frames regarding Methylphenidate, Ritalin and its Metalobite Ritalinic Acid going through a horses system would be of the upmost of importance in this case..

Metabolic timeframes will mean nothing. The horse has tested positive to a banned substance. How long it takes for it to metabolise doesnt change the fact that the horse has been doped.

Thrawn · February 4

Yarracoola said:
I honestly believe Grant & Alana are innocent (Not Guilty) they would not risk their livelihood for the sake of Winning a Kalgoorlie Cup.
Human Medication Exposure A Handler, Rider, Strapper or Barrier Attendant Taking ADHD Medication,
Contamination of Grooming Gear,Rugs,Stable Doors,Float Handles ETC
Even tiny amounts can be enough to show a Positive Swab.
Cross Contamination from Shared Spaces,Tack Rooms, Vehicles, Shared Wash Bays, Human Medication Stored in Same area as Horse Gear Tongue Tie, Bridle ETC can all lead to a minute amount which can lead to a Positive Ritalinic Acid Swab.

A positive test could come from a tiny amount, but the threshold for a positive test is set at such a high level that the "accidental ingestion" defence cannot be used for this exact reason.

Precision1 · February 4

Rodent said:
Is it possible that a trainer can have a protocol for using performance enhancing drugs that they know they can get away with and all is good until something unforeseen happens? Horse gets swabbed under totally different circumstances to what has been budgeted for and voila, a positive swab.
Hypothetical situation and nothing to do with the Williams camp. Just wondering if it's possible.

This is why I’ve said on multiple occasions, did the random pre-race blood sample test taken as per stewards report on the day test positive or not. As yet this hasn’t been made clear as far as I’ve seen

Flanders · February 4

Rodent said:
Is it possible that a trainer can have a protocol for using performance enhancing drugs that they know they can get away with and all is good until something unforeseen happens? Horse gets swabbed under totally different circumstances to what has been budgeted for and voila, a positive swab.
Hypothetical situation and nothing to do with the Williams camp. Just wondering if it's possible.

Completely possible Rodent and commonly believed to be how it works with some of the bigger stables, especially ones well-connected.

DamienWyer · February 7

FairCraic69 could you limit your comments on this matter to a single thread? You have started three for the same topic. Thank you.

spinking · February 8

It seems like the crack has a beef with team Williams

Bushbookie · February 8

Crack , give the forum some details of the original BLUE you had with Team Williams .

Muldoon · February 8

spinking said:
It seems like the crack has a beef with team Williams

You are not wrong he is having a fair crack.

meatpie · February 8

Yarracoola said:
I honestly believe Grant & Alana are innocent (Not Guilty) they would not risk their livelihood for the sake of Winning a Kalgoorlie Cup.
Human Medication Exposure A Handler, Rider, Strapper or Barrier Attendant Taking ADHD Medication,
Contamination of Grooming Gear,Rugs,Stable Doors,Float Handles ETC
Even tiny amounts can be enough to show a Positive Swab.
Cross Contamination from Shared Spaces,Tack Rooms, Vehicles, Shared Wash Bays, Human Medication Stored in Same area as Horse Gear Tongue Tie, Bridle ETC can all lead to a minute amount which can lead to a Positive Ritalinic Acid Swab.

Then you would expect many more positives, surely.

Markovina · February 9

scenic11 said:
It would take a fair amount of the drug Ritalin in a 450kg to 500kg horse's bloodstream to result in a positive swab.
Far more than could be transferred from just touching a horses bridle or head region.
The levels the stewards are sitting on would have to prove this.

If the positive was from a hair sample, maybe someone touching it's head could be a believable excuse.
Still doesn't explain how Ritalin entered its bloodstream.
It had to be administered by someone. Whether that be the trainers or someone else, who really knows?
It is the responsibility of the two trainers to ensure this does not happen.
It is also possible one of the two trainers administered the drug without telling the other one?
The female trainer is notoriously antivax/anti drug so I don't think she would.

Nothing at all to do with the Williams case - but your 2nd last sentence id like to discuss

There was a most interesting case in WA Harness re that around 18 months ago involving Mike Reed the trainer and Mark Reed the son and the driver

Mark Reed got in alot of issues/problems with the WA Trotting stewards over the journey and i think also with the WA Gallops stewards when he was training gallopers

Anyhow one of Reeds horses tested for a banned substance , out of competition testing , Mark Reed took full responsibility , said he administered the stuff without his fathers knowledge

So the WA Trots stewards in a very polite way a very gentlemanly way said to Mark Reed ( where as NSW stewards would have said to him you are warned off and listed in the warnedd off category ) because you are taking the full rap , Mark Reed will not to be allowed to have any further association with WA Trotting , and thus the penalty for his father Mike the trainer is only 6 months

Now if this had happened in NSW , the father would have copped 2-3 years without the son admission , but the big difference is the NSW stewards would have absolutely grilled Mark R - ok your taking the full rap - ok where did you buy the stuff - who gave it to you , when did you adminster the stuff , i didnt read anything like that in WA Trots summary of the case , Maybe instead they said , oh Mark , is it 2 or 3 sugars in the coffee , and would you like a Tim Tam or a shortbread biscuit

Honestly the NSW Trots stewards who are very good and very thorough ,and thus they try to give the punter great protection - they would make mince meat absolute mince meat of the WA Trots stewards

FairCraic69 · February 9

Oh Dear 'Blues and Beefs' Sadly for the PTT comments crew Craic has No Blue or Beef with Team Williams but merely pointing out to All N Sundry, that with all the argy bargy being posted Rules of Racing are a Law unto Themselves and rarely Civil Law will apply.

Further to the 'Blues and Beefs' Jibes Stating the Obvious this has been Very Distressing for Team Williams, The Owners of the IL Fated Starry Heights, Team Williams Staff, other Owners within the stable, and no doubt this is a Big Wheel that employs a Large Number of people that are All being affected.

That said and to reiterate my previous post when you are granted a license one of the conditions is to bring a horse to a race track Drug Free, Chemical Analysis has proven in this case that was not the case.

And the stewards will require a Plea of Guilty or Not Guilty then determine their findings...

So Until then Even Perry Mason or Judge Judy probably can’t assist on this occasion.

Bushbookie · February 9

Good work Crack , Up to Stipes now.

Chopchop43 · February 10

Markovina said:

scenic11 said:
It would take a fair amount of the drug Ritalin in a 450kg to 500kg horse's bloodstream to result in a positive swab.
Far more than could be transferred from just touching a horses bridle or head region.
The levels the stewards are sitting on would have to prove this.

If the positive was from a hair sample, maybe someone touching it's head could be a believable excuse.
Still doesn't explain how Ritalin entered its bloodstream.
It had to be administered by someone. Whether that be the trainers or someone else, who really knows?
It is the responsibility of the two trainers to ensure this does not happen.
It is also possible one of the two trainers administered the drug without telling the other one?
The female trainer is notoriously antivax/anti drug so I don't think she would.
Nothing at all to do with the Williams case - but your 2nd last sentence id like to discuss

There was a most interesting case in WA Harness re that around 18 months ago involving Mike Reed the trainer and Mark Reed the son and the driver

Mark Reed got in alot of issues/problems with the WA Trotting stewards over the journey and i think also with the WA Gallops stewards when he was training gallopers

Anyhow one of Reeds horses tested for a banned substance , out of competition testing , Mark Reed took full responsibility , said he administered the stuff without his fathers knowledge

So the WA Trots stewards in a very polite way a very gentlemanly way said to Mark Reed ( where as NSW stewards would have said to him you are warned off and listed in the warnedd off category ) because you are taking the full rap , Mark Reed will not to be allowed to have any further association with WA Trotting , and thus the penalty for his father Mike the trainer is only 6 months

Now if this had happened in NSW , the father would have copped 2-3 years without the son admission , but the big difference is the NSW stewards would have absolutely grilled Mark R - ok your taking the full rap - ok where did you buy the stuff - who gave it to you , when did you adminster the stuff , i didnt read anything like that in WA Trots summary of the case , Maybe instead they said , oh Mark , is it 2 or 3 sugars in the coffee , and would you like a Tim Tam or a shortbread biscuit

Honestly the NSW Trots stewards who are very good and very thorough ,and thus they try to give the punter great protection - they would make mince meat absolute mince meat of the WA Trots stewards

just out of curiosity have you ever sat in on an inquiry conducted by either of the states trotting bodies that you are making this comparison about, or are you just making a general statement based on what youve seen via media releases and the written copies of the inquiry, think its extremely hard to compare both states if you haven't actually been involved in the process

FairCraic69 · February 12

Just a bit of banter but I see the name of one of WA's racing Characters mentioned there, It's Mark Brandon (Chopper) Reed of Whipsaw and Kincaple fame one has to recognise the bloke can whisper to horses.

Now the old chop chop Mark likes a cold drink on a Hot day and a party for a few days in his heyday, So for stewards running around with stainless steel extended pots looking for a urine sample weren't his favourite people, Lets face it A Lot of Motorist getting urine or drug tested on a Satdy Morning would have blown over the limit as well, just tough luck for the Chop. I beleive he was contacted at Xmas with a Woke Xmas message along the lines of wishing you a safe inclusive climate aware Happy Holiday and Ive heard Chop replied he was Identifying as a Pot Plant and finding the transition very easy!!! Onya Chop in days where racing Characters are Extremely thin on the ground, You can Hold Your Own

G'day Punter!

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