TEAM WILLIAMS IN A HOLDING PATTERN

FairCraic69 · January 29

The inquiry is to resume on a date to be determined to admit a plea to the charge and for the matter to proceed accordingly.

After consideration of detailed submissions from the parties, Stewards have also determined that it is appropriate to direct pursuant to Local Rule 22 (LR22) that the licences of Mr and Mrs Williams be suspended pending the determination of the charge.

GLAMOUR · January 29

This is crazy,so how long for the inquiry to continue,they have all there horses,i know they can stay training,but can't nominate or accept fir races,nit that they can transfer to the wife or husband.

DamienWyer · January 29

DamienWyer · January 29

It should get a plea fairly soon and an appeal as the argument of LR22 applying was to build a base of appeal

DamienWyer · January 29

Media personalities should also learn to shut up when they have no legal standing in a matter and calling into disrepute the application of the Rules of Racing, whether you like them or not they are the rules.

Rules need to be seen to be applied fairly. Their KC made an adequate case for a later appeal.

scenic11 · January 29

DamienWyer said:
Media personalities should also learn to shut up when they have no legal standing in a matter and calling into disrepute the application of the Rules of Racing, whether you like them or not they are the rules.

Rules need to be seen to be applied fairly. Their KC made an adequate case for a later appeal.

Yeah don't know why Mcaulay is getting involved and on his high horse.
Don't recall him going in to bat for anyone else who's been stood down before.
Must be his mates.

Bottom line is they took it to the races with a class 1 prohibited drug in its system & that's as bad as it gets.

The horse broke down & died with a class 1 prohibited drug in it & that is the worst look for racing you can get.
Stewards are sending a message if you cheat with drugs you will get time & that is a good thing.

GLAMOUR · January 29

Thing is now for trainers and owners ,trainers wont want owners coming near there horses before a race,which has been a regular occurance for years,i just wonder if this had been a regular trainer with a low profile if there had been so much talk,definately no,som all i say lay off them media and just let this inquiry take its course.

Squiddy · January 29

So glamour you think one of the owners went to kal, went and saw the horse out the back and shoved a tablet down its throat without anyone including the trainers and staff see them do it?

GLAMOUR · January 30

GLAMOUR said:
Thing is now for trainers and owners ,trainers wont want owners coming near there horses before a race,which has been a regular occurance for years,i just wonder if this had been a regular trainer with a low profile if there had been so much talk,definately no,som all i say lay off them media and just let this inquiry take its course.

04-2775

Squiddy said:
So glamour you think one of the owners went to kal, went and saw the horse out the back and shoved a tablet down its throat without anyone including the trainers and staff see them do it?

No I'm not saying that at all Grant said at what happened someone could gave been on that medication and could have passed it on,not shoved a tablet down its throat,bit like when Covid was around you had to keep your distance,i don't bereavement on e that any person or The trainers done that

The_Bull · January 30

Ernie Manning's story in The West the other day has Grant Williams attributing blame to Kalgoorlie barrier attendant.

savethegame · January 30

Integrity Dept ? would have contact the likely people that could have been in contact, with the horse, Clerk of Course Barriers Attendants Swab Attendant were any using a
prescription drug for ADHD.

Squiddy · January 30

Surely no one believes that the horse has picked this up virally?

Tucool · January 30

Trying to administer anything orally to a horse is a uphill battle at the best of times. trying to do it on the sly is near on impossible.

Markovina · January 30

The_Bull said:
Ernie Manning's story in The West the other day has Grant Williams attributing blame to Kalgoorlie barrier attendant.

Havent read Ernies article/story , it would be good if someone could put this in this thread

I do have a soft spot for Grant - because he was a top class Trotting driver , beautifully balanced in the cart and all the rest of it

But what you posted their and i dont know the medical happenings of what this alleged positive is

However what i do know , about 5-6 years ago in Tasmanian Harness Racing , there was a lady trainer , and in a short period time she got 2-3 positives to cocaine, and she said to the stewards she is baffled as to what in the hell is happening here

The Trots stewards held an inquiry , and they had their vet and all the rest of it , and what they determined/found out , was one of her stablehands was using cocaine , and thus by that stablehand simply placing his hand on one of those pacers , that horse will test positive to cocaine , that is 1000% fact

Thus her horses were disqualified from the races where they were swabbed , but she copped no penalty

The_Bull · January 30

Happend with one of Gai's a fair while ago too.

The Ernie Manning article was in Wednesdays West. Not the sport section though, toward the front.

AbbysAce · January 30

Has it been mentioned the level that was detected in the horse?

I havent seen it mentioned.

Maybe the level was high eliminating the chance of getting it through a stablehand.

scenic11 · January 30

The_Bull said:
Ernie Manning's story in The West the other day has Grant Williams attributing blame to Kalgoorlie barrier attendant.

Anyone who thinks this drug got into the horse's bloodstream from the barrier staff, I've got a lovely big bridge to sell you.

Thrawn · January 30

AbbysAce said:
Has it been mentioned the level that was detected in the horse?

I havent seen it mentioned.

Maybe the level was high eliminating the chance of getting it through a stablehand.

Typically the trigger thresholds for testing for banned and prohibited substances in blood and urine are specifically set at a level high enough such that there can be no reasonable doubt that the level of the substance prohibited meets that which would be deliberately administered for the horse to gain a competitive advantage.

This is done to eliminate the "accidental/incidental" administration defence.

It is not physically possible for a horse to test positive for the metabolised ritalin by being touched by someone taking the medication, nor by accidentally ingesting a single human sized tablet.

In effect, there is no doubt that the horse has been deliberately administered ritalin for performance enhancing purposes when the results come back positive when a threshold has been set in such a manner. This is what has been done with cobalt in the past previously.

Precision1 · January 30

Markovina said:

The_Bull said:
Ernie Manning's story in The West the other day has Grant Williams attributing blame to Kalgoorlie barrier attendant.
Havent read Ernies article/story , it would be good if someone could put this in this thread

I do have a soft spot for Grant - because he was a top class Trotting driver , beautifully balanced in the cart and all the rest of it

But what you posted their and i dont know the medical happenings of what this alleged positive is

However what i do know , about 5-6 years ago in Tasmanian Harness Racing , there was a lady trainer , and in a short period time she got 2-3 positives to cocaine, and she said to the stewards she is baffled as to what in the hell is happening here

The Trots stewards held an inquiry , and they had their vet and all the rest of it , and what they determined/found out , was one of her stablehands was using cocaine , and thus by that stablehand simply placing his hand on one of those pacers , that horse will test positive to cocaine , that is 1000% fact

Thus her horses were disqualified from the races where they were swabbed , but she copped no penalty

Yes I have heard of cases like this as well but you need to consider a substance that is almost always found in a powder form (cocaine) is clearly far more likely to have residue left on a user that can be transmitted by touch compared to something in tablet form (Ritalin)

Perhaps recreational users of Ritalin crush them up and take them a way other than what is prescribed however?

The_Bull · January 30

Thrawn said:

AbbysAce said:
Has it been mentioned the level that was detected in the horse?

I havent seen it mentioned.

Maybe the level was high eliminating the chance of getting it through a stablehand.

Typically the trigger thresholds for testing for banned and prohibited substances in blood and urine are specifically set at a level high enough such that there can be no reasonable doubt that the level of the substance prohibited meets that which would be deliberately administered for the horse to gain a competitive advantage.

This is done to eliminate the "accidental/incidental" administration defence.

It is not physically possible for a horse to test positive for the metabolised ritalin by being touched by someone taking the medication, nor by accidentally ingesting a single human sized tablet.

In effect, there is no doubt that the horse has been deliberately administered ritalin for performance enhancing purposes when the results come back positive when a threshold has been set in such a manner. This is what has been done with cobalt in the past previously.

Time frame for Methylphenidate to metabolise into ritalinic acid should form the backbone of the enquiry

GLAMOUR · January 30

Thrawn said:

AbbysAce said:
Has it been mentioned the level that was detected in the horse?

I havent seen it mentioned.

Maybe the level was high eliminating the chance of getting it through a stablehand.

Typically the trigger thresholds for testing for banned and prohibited substances in blood and urine are specifically set at a level high enough such that there can be no reasonable doubt that the level of the substance prohibited meets that which would be deliberately administered for the horse to gain a competitive advantage.

This is done to eliminate the "accidental/incidental" administration defence.

It is not physically possible for a horse to test positive for the metabolised ritalin by being touched by someone taking the medication, nor by accidentally ingesting a single human sized tablet.

In effect, there is no doubt that the horse has been deliberately administered ritalin for performance enhancing purposes when the results come back positive when a threshold has been set in such a manner. This is what has been done with cobalt in the past previously.

But this is there livehood would
But this is there livehood would they both risk there future in the sport over a race in Kalgoorlie,my answer is no,there has to be an answer to this,imagine what both of these very professional and successful people are going through.

JayJay · January 30

Methylphrenidate (ritalin) tends to work for 3-4 hours and has a short half-life. Half-life is the time it takes for half of a substance to move through your system, and it is quite short at just 2-3 hours.

A standard dose for an ADHD child is about 5 to 10 mg, for an adolescent (young adult) 10-20 mg, quite low. A child has for example an body weight of 30-40kg, an adolescent (young adult) 40-60kg.

A horse has an average body weight of 450 -550kg. I am not sure of the pharmaceutic limits of testing but a 10 mg tablet that accidentally fell into a feed bin the morning before a race would, I suggest, show a very low reading post race.

It is a mysterious situation. There are stories, gossip, unfounded rumours of previous misuse of this drug over east but that is standard fare for the bulldust grapevine whenever anything pops up in the West for the first time. Hercule Poirot required at the double.

Precision1 · January 30

JayJay said:
Methylphrenidate (ritalin) tends to work for 3-4 hours and has a short half-life. Half-life is the time it takes for half of a substance to move through your system, and it is quite short at just 2-3 hours.

A standard dose for an ADHD child is about 5 to 10 mg, for an adolescent (young adult) 10-20 mg, quite low. A child has for example an body weight of 30-40kg, an adolescent (young adult) 40-60kg.

A horse has an average body weight of 450 -550kg. I am not sure of the pharmaceutic limits of testing but a 10 mg tablet that accidentally fell into a feed bin the morning before a race would, I suggest, show a very low reading post race.

It is a mysterious situation. There are stories, gossip, unfounded rumours of previous misuse of this drug over east but that is standard fare for the bulldust grapevine whenever anything pops up in the West for the first time. Hercule Poirot required at the double.

That is actually a really interesting point, a drug that is generally made for children, how much would a 500kg animal need to take to have a significant showing. Obviously these are all the things that would come up in the inquest and why it’s important it happens.

For what it’s worth I think as one off reading for something this bazaar is almost certainly a contamination somewhere. But it needs to be investigated fully

Yankee · January 31

I must getting on i remember these cases in the UK

The De Rigueur Case (1987): The most famous case involved a horse named De Rigueur, which won the Balmoral Handicap at Ascot in 1986. After testing positive for theobromine, it was discovered that a stable hand had fed the horse a Mars bar the night before the race, leading to the horse's disqualification.Cost the owner a lot of prize money and here's another from earlier.
The No Bombs Case (1979): Another case involved a horse named No Bombs, which was disqualified from an Ascot race after consuming a stable lad's Mars bar, with tests confirming the presence of stimulants.

FairCraic69 · January 31

I remember watching Bart Cummings being interviewed once and when asked about stable staff that had to start early am at bakers’ hours and work for not a lot of money he was quoted as saying "Well we are employing the Unemployable" Now if Poor Old Starry Heights did test positive to Ritalin by some form of “environmental contamination.” by a racing industry person The defence should be looking for someone with ADHD which often looks like:Chronic procrastinationDisorganisation at work or homeStarting lots of things, finishing fewEmotional sensitivity or mood swingsFeeling overwhelmed easilyPoor follow-through despite good intentionsHistory of being told you’re “lazy” or “not living up to potential”
NO WONDER BART TRAINED 11 CUP WINNERS

savethegame · February 2

Docker Tom Percy to interchange, Melbourne Damian Sheales named in the centre?

Thrawn · February 2

savethegame said:
Docker Tom Percy to interchange, Melbourne Damian Sheales named in the centre?

Feels like a last desperate roll of the dice

silky · February 2

A number of horses now with Donna Riordan and a few others spread around with Fernie and Fiore

FairCraic69 · February 2

WOW It's Alleged Damo likes a Lemon Squash on a Hot Day. Anyone reckon Dennis Denuto could help "It's the constitution, it's Mabo, it's justice, it's law, it's the vibe... No, that's it... It's the vibe!" or do they need Charles (Bud) Tingwell who said: "I can't speak for those who wrote this document, but I'll bet that when they put in the phrase 'On just terms', they hoped to stop anyone shortchanging someone like Darryl Kerrigan

DamienWyer · February 7

FairCraic69 could you limit your comments on this matter to a single thread? You have started three for the same topic. Thank you.

Flanders · February 17

I see the William team is back training under a stay until the next step in a few weeks

G'day Punter!

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TEAM WILLIAMS IN A HOLDING PATTERN

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