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Training costs Kal, Gero etc?

West Australian Racing

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  • silkysilky    428 posts
    I wouldn’t feel as if I was getting ripped off paying 4000 plus per month to the trainer if I was getting 95% of the winnings instead of 85%
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  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    435 posts
    Would you be feeling fine with paying that amount with your horse not earning tho ??? I mean it's worse case scenario but I've known owners within the trots who have complained about paying $1500 with there horses not earning along the way , I know there is a giant prizemoney difference between the 2 codes but regardless i feel like some owners are never happy with the monthly bill no matter how the horses are doing, and a large amount of time the horses form isn't through lack of effort on the trainers behalf
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  • silkysilky    428 posts
    Most bills are 4000 plus per month already
    Maybe I’ll start billing the trainer 10% for spelling and transport
    The 10% to the trainer made sense in days gone by cos they bore the cost of a lot of consumables but those days are over
    Like above posts, the owner pays for everything. Full rate on recovery days after racing, medication on race days and much more
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  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    435 posts
    silky said:

    Most bills are 4000 plus per month already
    Maybe I’ll start billing the trainer 10% for spelling and transport
    The 10% to the trainer made sense in days gone by cos they bore the cost of a lot of consumables but those days are over
    Like above posts, the owner pays for everything. Full rate on recovery days after racing, medication on race days and much more


    but your talking about slashing the 10% the get out of winnings, I'll guarantee if that was to happen monthly bill will increase, for a fair few trainers especially the battlers winning % makes a huge difference , it's getting ridiculously expensive to maintain the upkeep of horses , and i think most owners don't realise how much of a difference little bits and pieces added to bills ie ulcers treatments and so on and so on actually make to a horses performance alot of owners just seem to think trainers are ripping them off
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  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,950 posts
    edited June 2025
    Owners can and have negotiated monthly training fees, bonus payments and the like for years now. You just need 30-40 going to a single Trainer and you're sweet. 

    If you don't leave enough for the business to be viable, expect to have some corners cut, if you have boned out everything so that the Trainer has to rely on winning or they are kaput, is not the basis of sustainable success.

    Those who are late in paying, insist on breeding their own to non performing mares and sub standard stallions then buying camels at yearling sales, should also be aware that sooner or later, the Trainer will begin to feel that for all the grief and pain, you're just not worth the effort and walk away. 




    Chopchop43 likes this post.

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  • silkysilky    428 posts
    Like I said, I wouldn’t mind paying an extra 500p/m if they didn’t get the 10% and it went in my pocket
    For example a trainer gets an extra 500p/m per horse in a stable of 10 is $5000 per month. Not a bad earn
    But if my horse wins a race or 2 then I get to keep more of my prize money
    Win/win ??
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  • stropstrop    8 posts
    More than happy to keep the % the same, but the prize money increase over the last few years should cover the increase in cost
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  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    435 posts
    strop said:

    More than happy to keep the % the same, but the prize money increase over the last few years should cover the increase in cost


    that's all dependent if the horses are earning tho if there not earning then the prize money increase isn't really covering the increase in the costs to train

    Desperado likes this post.

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  • silkysilky    428 posts
    The trainer and jock also get a % of the westspeed bonus, which is paid for entirely by the owner. Another nice little earn
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  • silkysilky    428 posts
    Would be nice to be able to train your own horse. Tried to get an owner/trainer licence this season but was told I would need to hold a stable hand licence for at least 12 months before they’d even look even looked at me. They said my 20 plus years involved in racing stable and breeding horses in an unlicensed role stood for nothing. I don’t hold out much hope that there will be much of a next generation in the training ranks when the current pathway is so strict
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  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,950 posts
    silky said:

    Would be nice to be able to train your own horse. Tried to get an owner/trainer licence this season but was told I would need to hold a stable hand licence for at least 12 months before they’d even look even looked at me. They said my 20 plus years involved in racing stable and breeding horses in an unlicensed role stood for nothing. I don’t hold out much hope that there will be much of a next generation in the training ranks when the current pathway is so strict

    Fair enough too. In the Eastern States there actually is an education pathway. 
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  • silkysilky    428 posts
    DamienWyer said:

    silky said:

    Would be nice to be able to train your own horse. Tried to get an owner/trainer licence this season but was told I would need to hold a stable hand licence for at least 12 months before they’d even look even looked at me. They said my 20 plus years involved in racing stable and breeding horses in an unlicensed role stood for nothing. I don’t hold out much hope that there will be much of a next generation in the training ranks when the current pathway is so strict

    Fair enough too. In the Eastern States there actually is an education pathway. 

    Please elaborate Damien. Is my 20 plus years hands on experience not equivalent to being a licenced strapped for 12 months?
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  • silkysilky    428 posts
    DamienWyer said:

    silky said:

    Would be nice to be able to train your own horse. Tried to get an owner/trainer licence this season but was told I would need to hold a stable hand licence for at least 12 months before they’d even look even looked at me. They said my 20 plus years involved in racing stable and breeding horses in an unlicensed role stood for nothing. I don’t hold out much hope that there will be much of a next generation in the training ranks when the current pathway is so strict

    Fair enough too. In the Eastern States there actually is an education pathway. 

    I had glowing references from G1 winning trainers I had worked for, multiple references from industry participants eg vets, feed merchants stating I pay my bills, my own property with lovely stables and training facilities and bank statements showing upwards of 300k in savings yet I couldn’t get an owner/trainer licence
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  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,950 posts
    What can I say, a Jockey would have been offered a licence having already been a licenced person.

    It sounds like you feel hard done by, but the WA Industry has been a long way behind for decades and it sounds like they have tightened up requirements. 

    Here is the Racing NSW AI blurb regarding getting a Trainers licence.

    "Racing NSW offers a Certificate IV in Racing (Racehorse Trainer) qualification through the Team Thoroughbred NSW Training Academy. This 12-month, full-time traineeship program (RGR40118) combines classroom learning with on-the-job training within a licensed racing employer's stable. The program aims to equip individuals with the necessary skills and knowledge to manage and care for racehorses"
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  • silkysilky    428 posts
    edited July 2025
    DamienWyer said:

    What can I say, a Jockey would have been offered a licence having already been a licenced person.


    It sounds like you feel hard done by, but the WA Industry has been a long way behind for decades and it sounds like they have tightened up requirements. 

    Here is the Racing NSW AI blurb regarding getting a Trainers licence.

    "Racing NSW offers a Certificate IV in Racing (Racehorse Trainer) qualification through the Team Thoroughbred NSW Training Academy. This 12-month, full-time traineeship program (RGR40118) combines classroom learning with on-the-job training within a licensed racing employer's stable. The program aims to equip individuals with the necessary skills and knowledge to manage and care for racehorses"

    I feel hard done by yes. But more importantly I worry about the future of the sport. We need good people involved who are potentially going to take the sport forward. I agree we are behind the times with regards to training courses etc but what I’m really highlighting the fact that there are quality and experienced horse people out there getting left behind that are willing to invest in the sport. Now in my case, I’ve done the hard yards. I’ve now got a successful business to run, I’m not going back to do someone else’s yards and waters for $20 an hour. Surely there’s a bit of common sense involved for people who wish to train their own horses
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  • silkysilky    428 posts
    Stewards were worried about the lack of Raceday experience which was a fair concern
    My solution for that was a person could easily be accompanied by an open class trainer for the first 10/20 trials and the same for race days
    There wouldn’t be that many licence applications each year that each licence should be assessed on its merits??
    Is there any licenced trainers on the forum that have an opinion on this subject?
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  • VoodooVoodoo    1,361 posts
    edited July 2025
    Unfortunately silky the powers to be who are in charge of licensing don't go out of the office and observe the applicants credentials. Maybe that's due to not actually knowing themselves what skills are needed or required, but most competencies these days are "flick and tick" computer questionnaire's that anyone could get through.
    With most things currently, common sense means nothing, a paper trail appears to be the most important tool needed for everything. 

    silky, oldhendo likes this post.

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  • silkysilky    428 posts
    Voodoo said:

    Unfortunately silky the powers to be who are in charge of licensing don't go out of the office and observe the applicants credentials. Maybe that's due to not actually knowing themselves what skills are needed or required, but most competencies these days are "flick and tick" computer questionnaire's that anyone could get through.

    With most things currently, common sense means nothing, a paper trail appears to be the most important tool needed for everything. 

    You hit the nail on the head there unfortunately Voodoo
    +1 -1
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