Gloucester Park Sale Proposal

JayJay · September 2022

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/new-initiatives-to-grow-harness-racing-industry/

Sadly, not in WA.

getthechange · September 2022

JayJay said:

curmudgeon said:
Sounds to me like we better shut down every other track in WA then. Slap on some sunscreen & off to the new GP every day ...six horse free for alls for all to marvel at.on a 24 hr turn around.
Except you JayJay ...didn't notice your horse in on friday...I trust he is ok ?

Seems to have taken no harm. Yes, he did cop the concertina effect from an incident up front....minor incident, guilty plea resulted in a life changing $200 fine...a few others got knocked out as well. Can't really comment about Spy Major but it appears he may not be the easiest horse to drive but he escaped sanction, raced and earned last night.

But Ossie not going around because he copped not one but two ballots, one from the $L5 20k and the other from the stand primarily because he has a "12th" next to his name through no fault of horse, trainer or driver. And the same could happen next week, no guarantee of a start. But that's all okay....I'll just keep paying up for the next few weeks in case he jags a start. Suppose I could nominate for the FFA against Lavra and the gang from Snrs and kill the little fella but some greedy guts may complain about the horse racing out his class and getting in the way of one of the Mercedes......if I head to a midweek with him and he jags a $9k race, the winning stake of $4750 will take his HWOE to level 12 and the penalty will be he will go back to 20m in the never, ever to change conditions of the Friday night stand. No thanks, hard enough to win off 10m . Pretty pointless continuing on with him. His "huge" lifetime earnings of $77k may be the end of the penny section for what is basically a pretty nice little horse.

awaiting instructions is indeed a pretty nice little horse that unfortunately is caught between his owner who appears isn`t prepared to be flexible and GT who is also obstinate.

Whether he wins a metro stake race and takes a $9000 penalty or takes $4,500 each for two wins is that great of a difference is for you to decide .Obviously you like to race him in stands but it is unlikely for there to be changes to the stand format(IMO) so going forward the L5$ LT mobile races are where he needs to be(IMO) in order to be a nice earner for you. From observation the L5$LT races are the best option for handy type horses when they become level 12

the attachment shows races you may have/have not have overlooked

This is intended to be constructive

Markovina · September 2022

Arapaho said:
A bit of useless information for some of you ,from RWWA s annual report 2021.

Fy 2021 overall revenue $551.7m, comprised of $373.7m, from TAB wagering,$118.9m from the Western Australian racing bets levy, $35m from point of consumption tax and $24m from other items.

The WA Tab produced a profit of $135m excluding support costs.

Thats not useless information

That is about the most detailed financial ive seen

Markovina · September 2022

JayJay said:

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/new-initiatives-to-grow-harness-racing-industry/

Sadly, not in WA.

See i upset a couple of other posters - not you Jay Jay on this point

But i often plug or congratulate - NSW and Vic - on the things like you have highlighted

Theve got people in charge who have got a genuine love of the industry - and govts over their of both persuasion see the importance of racing ( all codes ) as an industry -the flow on affect and Denis Napkine ( the Vic liberal premier ) and it was him personally who reopened closed gallops and Trots tracks

I must say - there are some on this board who are very poorly educated- they wouldnt have a clue who John Maynard Keynes is - and his Multiplier effect theory

Rocket_Reign · September 2022

JayJay said:

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/new-initiatives-to-grow-harness-racing-industry/

Sadly, not in WA.

They’re putting in one new room? Gloucester Park is proposing to build many new rooms, you should vote yes

Markovina · September 2022

getthechange said:

JayJay said:
Speaking of stats/figures not fitting your narrative (whilst at the same time absolutely vouching for Curmudgeons character), I have updated my data base on percentages of leaders by adding in all the results from July 1st this year.
So, from July 1st (and I will keep working back as time permits) until September 6 this year which is starting to become a reasonable sample size:
Pinjarra Monday: 36 leaders won from 80 races contested 45%.
GP Tuesday : 42 leaders won from 81 races contested 52%
GP Friday : 70 leaders won from 102 races contested 69%

The stats presented by Ted Radley to your coterie group of 8 at your private tete a tete are somewhat at odds with what is emerging.

Am also aware that committee members are phoning members to sell the proposal. Strangely, I seem to have been left of the list. Can't wait to have a chat. Know of quite a few members they haven't bothered calling. What an absolute **** show we are witnessing. Still wondering how they will sort out the postal votes from the "electronic" email vote NOW ......there wouldn't be any chance of a member voting twice, now would there? To quote Canadian comedian, the late great Norm McDonald.."I ain't never heard tell of that".
Jay Jay - every race has a leader and every race has a favourite but they aren`t necessarily the same and leaders that win are quite often horses that weren`t expected to lead (eg Mirragon was a chance of leading but wasnt expected to lead and won at $5 - Westren Arterra led at $150 and nearly won and if it had would have gone down as a leader winning) -i was successful as a punter and a big part of that came from finding the leader as leaders winning races isn`t new
so while you are compiling stats consider
adding what % of leaders were favourites and how many started at less than $1.80 and what % of those leading and favourite won

Every punter has different ways of winning

But im totally opposite to you - im not interested in backing leaders - or very rarely - id much prefer backing what i think is the most talented/ well graded horse in the race - so it can sit back in the running line - or if they are walking - it will make a midrace move to outside the leader

Backing pacers who must lead - putting your eggs all in the 1 basket - you might as well back greyhounds

Now that Mirragon race you mentioned - which i watched live - it just crossed the favourite and led - now that race - should be written in Capital letters on a blackboard - a pivotal race - re the discussion the new track

And the reason why - if that race was at Albion Park or Melton - and Mirragon doesnt cross to the lead - THEN IT CAN STILL WIN THE RACE - it could sit 1 by 1 or 1 by 2 and still win

But on that shocking shiit box of a track called GP - if it doesnt lead it cant win - your tickets are confetti

Thats why sensible people including BOTRA want a proper size - safe fair track - not some 50 year out of date ( and in attrocious current condition re cambering ) unfair front runners - pegs dominated disgrace

Rocket_Reign · September 2022

Markovina said:

getthechange said:

JayJay said:
Speaking of stats/figures not fitting your narrative (whilst at the same time absolutely vouching for Curmudgeons character), I have updated my data base on percentages of leaders by adding in all the results from July 1st this year.
So, from July 1st (and I will keep working back as time permits) until September 6 this year which is starting to become a reasonable sample size:
Pinjarra Monday: 36 leaders won from 80 races contested 45%.
GP Tuesday : 42 leaders won from 81 races contested 52%
GP Friday : 70 leaders won from 102 races contested 69%

The stats presented by Ted Radley to your coterie group of 8 at your private tete a tete are somewhat at odds with what is emerging.

Am also aware that committee members are phoning members to sell the proposal. Strangely, I seem to have been left of the list. Can't wait to have a chat. Know of quite a few members they haven't bothered calling. What an absolute **** show we are witnessing. Still wondering how they will sort out the postal votes from the "electronic" email vote NOW ......there wouldn't be any chance of a member voting twice, now would there? To quote Canadian comedian, the late great Norm McDonald.."I ain't never heard tell of that".
Jay Jay - every race has a leader and every race has a favourite but they aren`t necessarily the same and leaders that win are quite often horses that weren`t expected to lead (eg Mirragon was a chance of leading but wasnt expected to lead and won at $5 - Westren Arterra led at $150 and nearly won and if it had would have gone down as a leader winning) -i was successful as a punter and a big part of that came from finding the leader as leaders winning races isn`t new
so while you are compiling stats consider
adding what % of leaders were favourites and how many started at less than $1.80 and what % of those leading and favourite won
Every punter has different ways of winning

But im totally opposite to you - im not interested in backing leaders - or very rarely - id much prefer backing what i think is the most talented/ well graded horse in the race - so it can sit back in the running line - or if they are walking - it will make a midrace move to outside the leader

Backing pacers who must lead - putting your eggs all in the 1 basket - you might as well back greyhounds

Now that Mirragon race you mentioned - which i watched live - it just crossed the favourite and led - now that race - should be written in Capital letters on a blackboard - a pivotal race - re the discussion the new track

And the reason why - if that race was at Albion Park or Melton - and Mirragon doesnt cross to the lead - THEN IT CAN STILL WIN THE RACE - it could sit 1 by 1 or 1 by 2 and still win

But on that shocking shiit box of a track called GP - if it doesnt lead it cant win - your tickets are confetti

Thats why sensible people including BOTRA want a proper size - safe fair track - not some 50 year out of date ( and in attrocious current condition re cambering ) unfair front runners - pegs dominated disgrace

You’re getting all riled up about something that doesn’t have to effect you

Markovina · September 2022

Im just giving my view

But like all WA harness racing fans - i want to actually look forward to - and be excited by the Friday night Metropolitan racing

Rocket_Reign · September 2022

Markovina said:
Im just giving my view

But like all WA harness racing fans - i want to actually look forward to - and be excited by the Friday night Metropolitan racing

You’re not a WA harness fan you’ve made that clear on here multiple times in the past

Markovina · September 2022

Not a WA harness racing fan !!!1

Pre pay tv - i use to drive to Cunderrin - York - Northam - Bunbury - Harvey - Pinjarra ( when under lights - the triangle thing )

Im not a fan of the GP track - and Donald Harper re the president of BOTRA - summed it up perfectly

Hall Snr is you hero ( fair enough ) and Hally has brainwashed you that the GP track is ok - because he is on the public record saying that GP should never be shut/unavailable for any track modification

getthechange · September 2022

Markovina said:

getthechange said:

JayJay said:
Speaking of stats/figures not fitting your narrative (whilst at the same time absolutely vouching for Curmudgeons character), I have updated my data base on percentages of leaders by adding in all the results from July 1st this year.
So, from July 1st (and I will keep working back as time permits) until September 6 this year which is starting to become a reasonable sample size:
Pinjarra Monday: 36 leaders won from 80 races contested 45%.
GP Tuesday : 42 leaders won from 81 races contested 52%
GP Friday : 70 leaders won from 102 races contested 69%

The stats presented by Ted Radley to your coterie group of 8 at your private tete a tete are somewhat at odds with what is emerging.

Am also aware that committee members are phoning members to sell the proposal. Strangely, I seem to have been left of the list. Can't wait to have a chat. Know of quite a few members they haven't bothered calling. What an absolute **** show we are witnessing. Still wondering how they will sort out the postal votes from the "electronic" email vote NOW ......there wouldn't be any chance of a member voting twice, now would there? To quote Canadian comedian, the late great Norm McDonald.."I ain't never heard tell of that".
Jay Jay - every race has a leader and every race has a favourite but they aren`t necessarily the same and leaders that win are quite often horses that weren`t expected to lead (eg Mirragon was a chance of leading but wasnt expected to lead and won at $5 - Westren Arterra led at $150 and nearly won and if it had would have gone down as a leader winning) -i was successful as a punter and a big part of that came from finding the leader as leaders winning races isn`t new
so while you are compiling stats consider
adding what % of leaders were favourites and how many started at less than $1.80 and what % of those leading and favourite won
Every punter has different ways of winning

But im totally opposite to you - im not interested in backing leaders - or very rarely - id much prefer backing what i think is the most talented/ well graded horse in the race - so it can sit back in the running line - or if they are walking - it will make a midrace move to outside the leader

Backing pacers who must lead - putting your eggs all in the 1 basket - you might as well back greyhounds

Now that Mirragon race you mentioned - which i watched live - it just crossed the favourite and led - now that race - should be written in Capital letters on a blackboard - a pivotal race - re the discussion the new track

And the reason why - if that race was at Albion Park or Melton - and Mirragon doesnt cross to the lead - THEN IT CAN STILL WIN THE RACE - it could sit 1 by 1 or 1 by 2 and still win

But on that shocking shiit box of a track called GP - if it doesnt lead it cant win - your tickets are confetti

Thats why sensible people including BOTRA want a proper size - safe fair track - not some 50 year out of date ( and in attrocious current condition re cambering ) unfair front runners - pegs dominated disgrace

marko - Jay Jay agreed with the stats comments I made

as stated in my punting days the first thing to establish was which horse looked the early leader and which horse is likely to find the lead after that - in current jargon a speed map from which one may result in backing the leader or an on pace horse or one coming from the back of the field. I didnt care where the winner came from so long as I had backed it

you read things into the post that werent there as until now I havent commented on track size or redevelopment or centralisation but here are my thoughts

redevelopment - I am all for GP being redeveloped but if I was a member with a vote would I vote in favour of the current proposal - I dont think I would because it seems to be putting the horse before he cart. I would have thought that plans for the redevelopment would have harness racing as the first focus - ie a track designer putting forward the largest track possible whether that be 800m 900m or 1000m then deciding what land is required for viewing races - modern stabling and float parking etc then put the remaining land up for sale for developers - I am not a businessman but if I had to vote I would be reticent like Jay Jay

track size - largest possible within a predetermined max cost - rocket may be right and it may not alter the outcomes of races but the perception is that it is fairer and a longer run to the first turn should help horses get accross

centralisation - IMO - I think there is a need for rationalising tracks to some degree but each district needs to have a main venue with good facilities - Pinjarra and Bunbury in the south west fit that category with Busselton and Collie allowed to continue due to their uniqueness

Great Southern district should race at Narrogin and Albany - havent been to Albany for a long time but Narrogin should have decent stabling in line with pin and Nor

NE districts has a good venue in Northam and the NE distrcts rationalised themselves when they amalgamated Wyalkatchem - Merriden- Trayning - Kellerberrin into Central districts - the faciliities are good at Kellerberrin apart from the stabling

unlike Rocket I think it is imperitive to keep these tracks running and racing regularly for exposure for the industry and to keep those that are in the industry to stay - using horse numbers in areas to close tracks or turnover on tracks( affected by day and time) results in bad decisions for the weekend warriors that travel to these meetings because that is where they can earn by in most cases ducking the leading trainers horses and for some the only time they can attend

pin and GPC should race every Monday and Tuesday

My father used to say the roots of the tree have to be watered. for the tree to be strong

JayJay · September 2022

Wise words from Lindsay. And not a lot I disagree with re the development. The "process" adopted by GPHRC is what disturbs me even more than the development, the startling lack of detail and lack of a proper evaluation of alternatives for track sizes, use of uncosted "ball park figures", secrecy on pricing and awarding of contracts, the perception of a very dodgy referendum process, the stealthy provision of lists of members being given to committee men to contact members ala phone "pressure polling", the recruiting of non member acolytes to lobby on their behalf, selective invite meetings ....and it has all been said multiple times before on multiple posts. It has a very odious smell attached to it all.

Markovina · September 2022

Race 4 last night at AP great race ( i didnnt bet ) but that race absolutely smashes Rocket Reign - repeated post - that leaders re WA would still win on a bigger track

And the simple reason why - are the closing sectionals 55.1 - yet the 2nd horse ( sensational run ) came from 2nd last - 3 wide without cover - and the winner came from 2nd last at the 400 .

And in the home straight - you look at it - well you didnt know where to look - because there was plenty of room for each horse and driver - infinitely fairer and safer racing - than what we have got

55.1 - 2nd horse 1 out 3 back - 3 wide without cover and winner 2nd last at the 400 metre with ample room to sweep around the lot of them

Put Lavroe Joes race at AP ( how it was run ) - it wins by 8-10 metres - Minstrel runs 2nd - the Moose runs 3rd and the leader doesnt run a place

Rocket_Reign · September 2022

Markovina said:
Race 4 last night at AP great race ( i didnnt bet ) but that race absolutely smashes Rocket Reign - repeated post - that leaders re WA would still win on a bigger track

And the simple reason why - are the closing sectionals 55.1 - yet the 2nd horse ( sensational run ) came from 2nd last - 3 wide without cover - and the winner came from 2nd last at the 400 .

And in the home straight - you look at it - well you didnt know where to look - because there was plenty of room for each horse and driver - infinitely fairer and safer racing - than what we have got

55.1 - 2nd horse 1 out 3 back - 3 wide without cover and winner 2nd last at the 400 metre with ample room to sweep around the lot of them

Put Lavroe Joes race at AP ( how it was run ) - it wins by 8-10 metres - Minstrel runs 2nd - the Moose runs 3rd and the leader doesnt run a place

Hahahaha

JayJay · September 2022

I believe the required number of members (minimum of 30 signatures required) have petitioned Gloucester Park Harness Racing Club for a special general meeting to discuss the proposed redevelopment. There is a time limit on when such a meeting must be held. For country members, the earliest notification possible would be of assistance in planning travel and accommodation. I am sure they will welcome an open transparent formal environment in which to further discuss this matter.

Chariotsonfire · September 2022

I am not sure that the call for a Special General Meeting is to discuss the sales proposal.

JayJay · September 2022

My understanding for the SGM is that it includes discussion of (but is not restricted to) the sale of the asset in order to redevelop, and matters associated with the development and voting mechanisms in play on the proposal that was distributed to members.

savethegame · September 2022

Jay Jay the members of G P. make the decision what I can't understand is if Rwwa is prepared to put 24million forward which is the amount the industry receive's in stakes shouldn't it become a industry decision.

Second hand information seems the people in charge of G.P have been there for 10--12 years shouldn't they step forward and say we have given it our best shot.
Time to move on and give someone else a go if they were a footy coach and you have the capacity to fit 20 thousand members to a game then say your new direction to grow as a club only will allow only 4 thousand on our best night for ever going forward &; W A is growing at 7 percent population don't think you would get a standing ovation

Markovina · September 2022

Race 5 at GP their - Medieval Man leading - under pressure from the 500 and clung on

That race is a perfect example 950-1000 metre with excellent cambering - it would have been a thrilling race - and a screamer of a finish - the backmarkers werre coming but the straight is just too short - let alone the tightness of the turns

Leader probably runs 5th or 6th

Still cant get over Halls boasting tweet - its like saying or claiming that the WAFL is the best AFL Comp in Aust

Cant_Refuse · October 2022

Interesting reading on Twitter this morning in regards to the track at addington. Big track with a passing lane and they are all complaining about the front/pegs domination. Bit of food for thought there……

Cant_Refuse · October 2022

Cant_Refuse said:
Interesting reading on Twitter this morning in regards to the track at addington. Big track with a passing lane and they are all complaining about the front/pegs domination. Bit of food for thought there……

Did someone remove the key from markos dungeon?

Markovina · October 2022

Cant_Refuse said:
Interesting reading on Twitter this morning in regards to the track at addington. Big track with a passing lane and they are all complaining about the front/pegs domination. Bit of food for thought there……

No you make a very good point - some big tracks are leaders Tracks - eg Bunbury - Cranbourne in Victoria - and there are others

I can look at it logically and fairly - but the 800 metre fans - like Rockets and Chariots in my opinion they cant

What about 850 or 880 or 920 - no they are not interested whatsoever in any possible improvement in the GP track - no just leave their precious little half mile circuit alone - and most importantly never close it and disrupt the racing for any improvements whatsover

You should allways try to improve things - now a 900 metre track - might be alot better than a 1100 metre track - they should be consulting Engineering track design specialists on this

Chariotsonfire · October 2022

Contrary to your belief Marko I am not against increasing the size of the track but at what cost. The cost of any increase in size and the reduced value of the remaining land would in my opinion outweigh the benefits that a bigger track would bring to the table other than possibly stopping you from banging on about it infinitum.

Rocket_Reign · October 2022

I’m also not against changing it these horses winning now will win on an 800 - 900 -1000 whatever you want all I’m against is you acting like
It’s the saviour

Markovina · October 2022

Rocket_Reign said:
I’m also not against changing it these horses winning now will win on an 800 - 900 -1000 whatever you want all I’m against is you acting like
It’s the saviour

Personally i would love a track like Kilmore - did have a little bit of fortune their today - in particular with Bailey McDonoughs father Allan

But horses can sit back and come with a well timed run -there is a sprint lane - not a dominating one though - and it is a very spacious track - has to be safer for the participants

I do agree with you - its not a saviour - betting might actually go down - but i think it would be fairer racing

Gilgamesh · October 2022

Any word on the vote results?

Gilgamesh · October 2022

Endorsed I see.

Gilgamesh · October 2022

The more I look at the size of land that is left the more I feel this is just Belmont 2.0

batfink · October 2022

Gilgamesh said:
Any word on the vote results?

By their Constitution they needed at least 66% of members to submit a vote. In the so called result they have reported that 75% of members submitted a vote. They sent out a total of 675 ballots to 375 members (so a surplus of 300+ ballots to the number of voting members ) and then sent then out a message “it is important you only vote once”. Really ??? The poll closed on 5 October and they are required to keep all ballots and identification counterfoils for 30 days to enable checking and verification.
However ……. When asked by a member last week to come into office to check these items, they did not respond until following day whereupon Michael Radley advised that no member was permitted to view and scrutinise the voting identification counterfoils and therefore count the legitimate votes. Mr Radley did not explain the purpose of having to keep everything in safe custody for 30 days post referendum close of poll. Mr Radley also did not say “who if anyone” is entitled to examine the count to verify legitimacy. Simply put it is beyond disturbing.

curmudgeon · October 2022

Interesting parallels ?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/racing-auckland-trotting-club-in-100m-debt-drama-lifeline/5JBDNEGWR4VDKIYKDQ4T4OMEPY/

G'day Punter!

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