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Harness & Greyhounds

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  • getthechangegetthechange    339 posts
    edited March 2022
    savethegame said:

    Getthechange-- All Black Rain if had won tonight he would have been  ineligble  and lost the race after receiving the win from last tuesday which seem it would sent his  HWOE over 12k. as second money was accredited-- not the win

    think he would be eligible as he was eligible at acceptance time
    see page 3 point i     racing policies and general information
    +1 -1
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    288 posts
    Here’s a question if being put in a field as second emergency for an R Class race does that mean you don’t get ballot points even if eventually you get scratched as your not required ?
    +1 -1
  • getthechangegetthechange    339 posts
    Hi Aussie
    it would appear not

    1. A horse will be awarded 6 Field Selection Points for any ballot it receives.
    2. The points gained from a ballot will replace the most recent lowest points scoring start, provided the ballot
    points are greater than the lowest points scoring start within the horses Form Points.
    3. Points will be credited to a horse’s Field Selection Points total after the running of the race meeting from
    which the horse has been balloted.
    4. This will not be applicable under the following scenarios:
    a) when a horse has an unfulfilled engagement;
    b) when a horse is a late nomination;
    c) when a horse is deemed ineligible at acceptance time;
    d) when a horse is balloted from a race having gained a start in another race on the same day;
    e) when a horse is balloted from a race having already been balloted from another race on the same day;
    f) if the horse is declared     an emergency but is scratched;
    g) if the race is declared a ‘no-race’ or is abandoned;
    h) if the horse has already received ballot points in the past six days or has gained a start in the past six
    days.
    i) if the horse gains a start in the five days following the date of the meeting from which they were
    balloted.
    5. No Ballot points shall be allocated where a horse is balloted from a Metropolitan Stakes race.
    6. When a horse qualifies to race it will be initially allotted 24 Field Selection Points. The point score of a newly
    qualified horse will then be calculated in the same manner as for a horse with a racing history
    +1 -1
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    288 posts
    getthechange said:

    Hi Aussie

    it would appear not

    1. A horse will be awarded 6 Field Selection Points for any ballot it receives.
    2. The points gained from a ballot will replace the most recent lowest points scoring start, provided the ballot
    points are greater than the lowest points scoring start within the horses Form Points.
    3. Points will be credited to a horse’s Field Selection Points total after the running of the race meeting from
    which the horse has been balloted.
    4. This will not be applicable under the following scenarios:
    a) when a horse has an unfulfilled engagement;
    b) when a horse is a late nomination;
    c) when a horse is deemed ineligible at acceptance time;
    d) when a horse is balloted from a race having gained a start in another race on the same day;
    e) when a horse is balloted from a race having already been balloted from another race on the same day;
    f) if the horse is declared     an emergency but is scratched;
    g) if the race is declared a ‘no-race’ or is abandoned;
    h) if the horse has already received ballot points in the past six days or has gained a start in the past six
    days.
    i) if the horse gains a start in the five days following the date of the meeting from which they were
    balloted.
    5. No Ballot points shall be allocated where a horse is balloted from a Metropolitan Stakes race.
    6. When a horse qualifies to race it will be initially allotted 24 Field Selection Points. The point score of a newly
    qualified horse will then be calculated in the same manner as for a horse with a racing history
    Thanks ,thats what I thought as being deemed an acceptor and starter until emergencies not required and ultimately scratched .Not a problem ,was just interested to know 
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Surely if you don't make the field and are listed as an emergency, and there are subsequently no scratchings, you have been effectively balloted and should receive 6 field selection points? Different story if there is a scratching(s) and you actually start in the race.
    +1 -1
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    I would imagine that particular clause would only apply if you scratch your horse after being made an emergency....but the way it is written it is open to interpretation.
    +1 -1
  • getthechangegetthechange    339 posts
    agree it could be open to interpretation and also with jay jay comment
    but
    aussie actually asked about R/community races which raises another question
    if the field has been selected on reverse points and the horse has been balotted because it had too many points it could have its point tally increased by the ballot points making it harder to get a start in an upcoming reverse point race

    ashleighmp, KTQ likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Fair point GTC, gee its hard to Rise To Fame, or even get a start, under these rules, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
    +1 -1
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    288 posts
    getthechange said:

    agree it could be open to interpretation and also with jay jay comment

    but
    aussie actually asked about R/community races which raises another question
    if the field has been selected on reverse points and the horse has been balotted because it had too many points it could have its point tally increased by the ballot points making it harder to get a start in an upcoming reverse point race
    Field not selected on reverse points for Community races ,hence why we ended up as an emergency with very low points
    JayJay said:

    Fair point GTC, gee its hard to Rise To Fame, or even get a start, under these rules, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    Agree JayJay ,if we end up being selected as an emergency each week and if that means we arent eligable for ballot points then it is very difficult to get a start under those conditions 
    +1 -1
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    930 posts
    aussiebattler said:

    getthechange said:

    agree it could be open to interpretation and also with jay jay comment

    but
    aussie actually asked about R/community races which raises another question
    if the field has been selected on reverse points and the horse has been balotted because it had too many points it could have its point tally increased by the ballot points making it harder to get a start in an upcoming reverse point race
    Field not selected on reverse points for Community races ,hence why we ended up as an emergency with very low points
    JayJay said:

    Fair point GTC, gee its hard to Rise To Fame, or even get a start, under these rules, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    Agree JayJay ,if we end up being selected as an emergency each week and if that means we arent eligable for ballot points then it is very difficult to get a start under those conditions 



    I thought all community races were drawn on reverse points, that being the whole point of it
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Trots WA Magazine Page 73 Point 5:

    "Community Race Meeting Fields for Community Race Meetings will be selected in descending FSP  (Field Selection Points) order with a preference for horses that have NOT won
    (a) 3 or more races with stakes >$5,000 in their last 10 starts
    (b) won 1 or more races with stakes >$14,999 in their last 10 starts."
    +1 -1
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    288 posts
    getthechange said:

    Hi Aussie

    it would appear not

    1. A horse will be awarded 6 Field Selection Points for any ballot it receives.
    2. The points gained from a ballot will replace the most recent lowest points scoring start, provided the ballot
    points are greater than the lowest points scoring start within the horses Form Points.
    3. Points will be credited to a horse’s Field Selection Points total after the running of the race meeting from
    which the horse has been balloted.
    4. This will not be applicable under the following scenarios:
    a) when a horse has an unfulfilled engagement;
    b) when a horse is a late nomination;
    c) when a horse is deemed ineligible at acceptance time;
    d) when a horse is balloted from a race having gained a start in another race on the same day;
    e) when a horse is balloted from a race having already been balloted from another race on the same day;
    f) if the horse is declared     an emergency but is scratched;
    g) if the race is declared a ‘no-race’ or is abandoned;
    h) if the horse has already received ballot points in the past six days or has gained a start in the past six
    days.
    i) if the horse gains a start in the five days following the date of the meeting from which they were
    balloted.
    5. No Ballot points shall be allocated where a horse is balloted from a Metropolitan Stakes race.
    6. When a horse qualifies to race it will be initially allotted 24 Field Selection Points. The point score of a newly
    qualified horse will then be calculated in the same manner as for a horse with a racing history

    reply from handicapper


    Incorrect. You will receive ballot points as long as the following do not occur, specifically i):

     

    3. Points will be credited to a horse’s Field Selection Points total after the running of the race meeting from

    which the horse has been balloted.

    4. This will not be applicable under the following scenarios:

    a) when a horse has an unfulfilled engagement;

    b) when a horse is a late nomination;

    c) when a horse is deemed ineligible at acceptance time;

    d) when a horse is balloted from a race having gained a start in another race on the same day;

    e) when a horse is balloted from a race having already been balloted from another race on the same day;

    f) if the horse is declared an emergency but is scratched;

    g) if the race is declared a ‘no-race’ or is abandoned;

    h) if the horse has already received ballot points in the past six days or has gained a start in the past six

    days.

    i) if the horse gains a start in the five days following the date of the meeting from which they were

    balloted.

    Regarding point “f)”, this is if you are declared an emergency but subsequently scratch due illness, injury etc.

     

    Regards,

     

    Michael McDermott | Handicapper – Harness Racing

    getthechange likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    Bunbury abandoned.
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Posponed to tomorrow due to Lightning in the area, amended time schedule is what I am hearing.
    +1 -1
  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    Happened to come across this result page -----Far from having a in depth knowledge how good they really were but amazed of the number that hit me as  top class or  very good  free-for-all horses from memory as a  young-en. that competed on the one card.

    Mount Eden Juniors Image--,Binshaw--,Pyramus--,Network--,Peter Patrick--,Radiant Oro--,Answer Me,--- Roscott---The Rogue,--Ardcliffe--- Urosevic--- Doubtful John,--Bernbon--- Cressello,--Tartan Maid..Civilian ----- Red Vicar was scratched 

    .No doubt have left out some top horses from  the meeting based on the low mark races they compete in---Macs Problem--Comet Again --Jaina--- Borosia Boy etc.

     The three-old race which had Tanaka  --,Waytane---  Garrison Report----- Three  divisions of Christmas Hcp-- Winners  4TH DIVI. Bow Mist--5th DIVI  Bronze Whaler  8th DIVI Mount Eden. what happened to the 6th-7th.DIVI.?  Jay Jay--- Did Mount Eden get beat in the final.

    The days when punters were guaranteed  55c  made better sense---on  the real short ones to back for a place because of the guarantee 55c the win 55c the place. divi.

    Someone will remember when what year  tab removed  the guarantee.
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    savethegame said:

    Mount Eden Juniors Image--,Binshaw--,Pyramus--,Network--,Peter Patrick--,Radiant Oro--,Answer Me,--- Roscott---The Rogue,--Ardcliffe--- Urosevic--- Doubtful John,--Bernbon--- Cressello,--Tartan Maid..Civilian ----- Red Vicar was scratched 


    .No doubt have left out some top horses from  the meeting based on the low mark races they compete in---Macs Problem--Comet Again --Jaina--- Borosia Boy etc.

     The three-old race which had Tanaka  --,Waytane---  Garrison Report----- Three  divisions of Christmas Hcp-- Winners  4TH DIVI. Bow Mist--5th DIVI  Bronze Whaler  8th DIVI Mount Eden. what happened to the 6th-7th.DIVI.?  Jay Jay--- Did Mount Eden get beat in the final.


    STG, Could write a book on the above, bit like my visit to the Mandurah estuary, not a crab to be seen amongst them. Probably did way back in that elongated thread on the Top 50 Pacers of all time, which morphed into the best trainers and drivers: and then gave birth to the  "Flying Under The Radar- who Am I" thread. No, Mount Eden won the final, it was the famous one when George James dashed No Dill past him and said words to the effect of "I'll see you in the showers Jack" only for the champ to get up off the carpet and claim No Dill late, with a heaving crowd (Crowds, remember them?) screaming themselves hoarse.

    savethegame likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Just as an addendum to that STG, the next year (1971), No Dill won his  heat (they had 6 heats, first 2 into the final) held at Fremantle on December 11, another 3 heats were run at GP on December 18th and the final was run at GP on December 23rd......and can you believe  No Dill ran 2nd again, this time to Regal Counsel driven by Boof Anderson. Other winners that night included Yankee Rhythm for Tricky in a Qualifying Stakes, Durante for Bob Sangalli in a 2.21 and better stand, Bay Brigade for Les Williams in a 2.21 stand (all 3 of them would go on to contest an Interdominion), Dollars Double won a 2.21 stand for Lyle  (previously a Golden slipper winner for Coulson and a future Fremantle Cup winner for Lindau) and dawns Glory won the consolation for Val Pereira. The other Qualie was won by Nanda Pabat for Tricky.

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    The result page I  had no date ---Since notice that Bay Brigade was in a  crash in the three yearold race in 70  that Garrison Report won.--Yankee Rythm raced at Kalgoorlie Round doing Fred Astaire impersonations  short cropped mane- Bill Warwick driving.--Turned out a top horse.
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    I've got Yankee Rhythm winning a 2.28 at Kal on Sept 3,1971 off the front for Bill beating Banksy Butler and Spot On, then on Sept  11 in a 2.28 off 12 yards, again for Bill Warwick, rated 2.9.4 beating El Condor Pasa and Hilomist. Came to Perth on October 1 for a 3rd to Alladin and Parading Frost, a 3rd to Waytane and James Eden on October 15...Durante 4th, very strong field.....before winning a heat of the Bunbury Gift for Trevor on October 21 (3rd in the final to Overway and Betty Gold).
    Won a 2.25 front off the front at Northam on November 10, a 25 front off 12 yards at Pinjarra on Nov 18, another 2nd to Waytane at Bunbury, a 2nd to Dollars Double at Pinjarra December 1, a win at "Dumbleyung" (held at Wagin)  on December 11, a win at Harvey in a 2.25 front off 36 yards on Dec 15 and then won his Qualifying stake at Perth on December 23 as previously mentioned. Next up on Jan 1 1971, he won a 4 year old race on Trotting Cup night (Pyramus) beating Field Warrior and James Eden, won a 2.21 off 12 yards at Harvey on Jan 6, a 2.21 front at Perth on Jan 22 rating a slick 2.7.2 from the stand and made it 5 wins in a row with a win at Harvey off 24 yards on Jan 28.
    They didn't miss them in those days......18 starts for 12 wins between Sept 3 and Jan 28. Not done with yet, he had another 9 starts in his 4 year old season winning another 5 races....17 wins for the season. Yep, he was a very very good horse Yankee Rhythm, often glossed over when talking good horses. And he got better as he got older.

    savethegame, curmudgeon likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    Check tomorrow- for sure --- Yankee Rhythm one night of the round he was like a yo-yo thought he was going over the fence. Knew he finished up in a inters.
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    He won a heat of the Inters in Sydney and a Consolation in 1973, 2nd and 3rd in the heats in Perth the next year, 2nd to James Eden in a WA Cup, won an August Cup, a Bunbury Cup.

    Got him running 2nd last in between his first two wins at Kal September 10 1971, The Allen and Brimage Cup, (Nightland won from 24 yards for Jimmy Schrader beating Hilomist and Ace Dillon), which is where he may have thought he was in a rodeo.

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    I know Durante went to 73 inters in Sydney because I used to see the harness gear steel box that was given to each horse with “Sydney inerdominon 1973” written on top of it every morning when I would rather be in bed.
    From memory he got knocked out of final in a race fall.
    I have a photo of me sitting on his back before he was sold to USA, yep 1974 he went and these young bucks think they are breaking new ground.

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    I was on course for all those races ...Banksy Butler in the white gear....Nightlands win ....that may have been the Anti Friction / Nat King year
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    I remember him well Freo, only a little fella but possessed blinding speed. Night 1 of that series in Sydney (and it was a very strong and deep line up), he galloped out, lost a stack of ground and zoomed around them turning in but he hung and had to be steadied, finished an unbelievable 2nd to Manaroa.
    He copped a flat tyre on Night 2 and ran last which mucked him about as he ran 5th on the third night and may have qualified for the final but he missed out. Unplaced in one of FOUR consolations such was the depth of nominations.
    Back in Perth, he won the Mount Eden Mile, beating wee Cent and Miss dundee over 1600m, not the 1609m. It was the days when the hopeless initiative dreamt up by someone far too enamoured with metrics of "kilometre rates" was briefly in vogue and his time was recorded as a kilometre rate of 1.13.7 which meant nothing to anyone. When HRA did the conversion, they mucked it up or someone mucked it up and to this day on the HRA data base, Durante is given a best mile rate of 1.59.3 when it should be 1.58.6. Old year books also have him being driven by Fred Kersley when I am sure it was Bob. Did he ever do any good in the States?

    freodockers likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Nat King was before 1970/71, he was a 5 year old in the 1967/68 season when he won a 21 front and a heat of the Christmas Gift. That August/September round was a very famous one indeed....Radiant Oro and Yardon cleaned up for the Bunbury Mafia on night 1 (August 26), Little Jenny for Don Wegner won the Golden Mile Cup. Night two (August 30) saw Dark Rauen and Laurie Robinson win and Daintys Daughter won the Hannans Cup and on the final night, Radiant Oro won again as did Whitty's great producing mare Cambodia and Jimmy The Jet won the Allen and Brimage Cup on Big Venture for Alf and Ken Hampton. Such was the attraction of the "round" in those days.  World record holders and dual Trotting Cup winners racing in Kalgoorlie.  And it was also the first round I ever attended, obviously the first "Calcutta" I had ever seen and the first game of two up I ever saw. And it has been a downhill slide ever since!!! There were also a couple of other events I had never witnessed before but we will leave it there I think.

    curmudgeon, freodockers, savethegame likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    Article Heading---- Odds -on Yankee Rhythm Fails After Bad Start
                                  Nightland leads throughout in Allen & Brimage Cup.

    Stewards report  --Yankee Rhythm (W.Warwick) was slow away and galloped badly W.Warwick was severely reprimanded for not keeping the galloping Yankee Rhythm  in a straight course causing Proton to be checked.

     I Only can remember two horses that raced with just a tail butt.(no hairs). Jay Jay mention's the N.Z. star  who went under the nickname ''The Ugly Duckling''   Manaroa two-posts back.----Merv. Goodes horse Proton was the other .---Proton won a main cup over a  round

    Zaruma free for all  horse couldn't handle Kalgoorlie got 28 days for galloping----Always wondered did John Deane train many horses because around the same time he had the explosive two-year-old Mr Karamea who was running 1.58.s.Eventually sold to America thinking he perished in a barn fire.?

    JayJay likes this post.

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Merv Goode used to give Proton a penetrene rub on race days. He was a lovely old horse & for a kid like I was then it smelled as good as 70's Brut 33  :D

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    curmudgeon said:

    Merv Goode used to give Proton a penetrene rub on race days. He was a lovely old horse & for a kid like I was then it smelled as good as 70's Brut 33  :D

    Age shall not weray him. You forgot about Brylcream---California poppy. :D

    Both top horse people his wife Maiden name  Doy --Galloper she trained Mathieson won 24 races.
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    J.J.Deane had a lot of horses and winners going way back to 1960 with  very good winner Wild Wave......who was a sister of the dam of Radiant Oro, one of Francis Wade's prolific breed. As well as Zaruma, there was also Amuraz. He bought Mister Karamea off Noel Simpson and he was a crazy good two year old.  He sold Mister Karamea as a 3yo to a syndicate of Phil's  for a rumoured $100k and they continued racing him, won the 3yo Triple Crown ($10k), a heat of the Derby and 3rd to Nixon Adios in the final and then he took him over to North America. All up he won 11 Metro races in WA, 10 at GP and one at Richmond (Western Gateway) but he did extra well in the states, finishing with a final tally of 84 starts, 25 wins, 26 places and $246k in stakes. Phil actually won on him twice in the USA,  Sept 18, 1976  at Hollywood Park in California taking his lifetime record of 1.56.6, and again on another trip back over there, again at Hollywood Park on April 16 1977 going 1.57.8. All up, he went under 2.00 minutes 7 times, his world record 1.58.6 as a 2yo for Deane and Jim Schrader at GP, the two wins above for Coulson and 4 more wins  (# at Yonkers and 1 at Roosevelt Park) all for Herve Filion. Tragically, he was killed in a barn fire "with "his best to come, very nice horse" to quote the master.
    Manaroa was certainly compromised in the tail department and another very good horse, stable nick name "Bobtail Joe" reduced to just "Joe"....Coolup Way, a great campaigner here for Laurie Robinson and later in the USA....and I think his full brother, the very handy Yelta, also had a "rat tail".

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • OrangecrushOrangecrush    11 posts
    savethegame said:

    Happened to come across this result page -----Far from having a in depth knowledge how good they really were but amazed of the number that hit me as  top class or  very good  free-for-all horses from memory as a  young-en. that competed on the one card.


    Mount Eden Juniors Image--,Binshaw--,Pyramus--,Network--,Peter Patrick--,Radiant Oro--,Answer Me,--- Roscott---The Rogue,--Ardcliffe--- Urosevic--- Doubtful John,--Bernbon--- Cressello,--Tartan Maid..Civilian ----- Red Vicar was scratched 

    .No doubt have left out some top horses from  the meeting based on the low mark races they compete in---Macs Problem--Comet Again --Jaina--- Borosia Boy etc.

     The three-old race which had Tanaka  --,Waytane---  Garrison Report----- Three  divisions of Christmas Hcp-- Winners  4TH DIVI. Bow Mist--5th DIVI  Bronze Whaler  8th DIVI Mount Eden. what happened to the 6th-7th.DIVI.?  Jay Jay--- Did Mount Eden get beat in the final.

    The days when punters were guaranteed  55c  made better sense---on  the real short ones to back for a place because of the guarantee 55c the win 55c the place. divi.

    Someone will remember when what year  tab removed  the guarantee.

    +1 -1
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