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Harness & Greyhounds

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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    930 posts
    Muldoon said:

    Rocket_Reign said:


    Chariotsonfire said:


    Reading through all this, can someone lead me to a link that RWWA have put on paper that this is a likely thing to happen going foward, or is this all just talk ?



    It’s all just talk and opinions
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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    When Richmond Raceway was sold the money was put in a trust. is there any of that left?
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    I don’t remember you being this cranky all the time Rocket.
    Fact is it’s coming wether we like it or not.
    Something got to give and it will be rationalisation of the pacing industry.
    However I think it will be silence I mean business as usual from RWWA til after the election.
    Watch this space.
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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    930 posts
    freodockers said:

    I don’t remember you being this cranky all the time Rocket.
    Fact is it’s coming wether we like it or not.
    Something got to give and it will be rationalisation of the pacing industry.
    However I think it will be silence I mean business as usual from RWWA til after the election.
    Watch this space.




    Haha I’m not cranky just overly opinionated like to think it comes from a place of passion though, probably don’t portray my point overly well sometimes

    PackedMetalPanda, freodockers, cisco likes this post.

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  • Ivorytrunkey86Ivorytrunkey86    242 posts
    Is it good news for harness racing if crown is stripped of its license as I was just reading
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  • tonytony    2,436 posts
    Won't be for long (it is only Sydney where the casino part has not yet opened).
    Having replaced a couple of directors and the CEO and maybe getting Packer to sell some of his (35%) shareholding they will say it is all better and the regulators will agree.

    That is my opinion anyway

    freodockers, oldhendo likes this post.

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    5,006 posts
    Rocket_Reign said:

    freodockers said:

    I don’t remember you being this cranky all the time Rocket.

    Rocket you seem to struggle with the concept that without the bottom there can’t be a top. The bottom is shrinking and so is the top. Look at a bloke like Megan Woodley. He is a good enough driver to be full time but there just aren’t enough drives to go around to sustain the number of full time drivers.

    If you don’t have the battling trainers nominating, races fall over, doesn’t matter how good your horses are, how good a trainer you are if you do t have others that want to compete you won’t be racing ether.

    Not that long ago you wins race on a Friday night you’ve got enough for a house deposit. Or if you were “smart” you could have a go at one when it was right and have a good collect. Costs just go up and up and comparative to prize money, can’t get a bet on, very hard for the little guy to survive, people might be happy to have a small loss but you need a pretty decent horse to break square as you know.

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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    930 posts
    Gilgamesh said:

    Rocket_Reign said:

    freodockers said:

    I don’t remember you being this cranky all the time Rocket.

    Rocket you seem to struggle with the concept that without the bottom there can’t be a top. The bottom is shrinking and so is the top. Look at a bloke like Megan Woodley. He is a good enough driver to be full time but there just aren’t enough drives to go around to sustain the number of full time drivers.

    If you don’t have the battling trainers nominating, races fall over, doesn’t matter how good your horses are, how good a trainer you are if you do t have others that want to compete you won’t be racing ether.

    Not that long ago you wins race on a Friday night you’ve got enough for a house deposit. Or if you were “smart” you could have a go at one when it was right and have a good collect. Costs just go up and up and comparative to prize money, can’t get a bet on, very hard for the little guy to survive, people might be happy to have a small loss but you need a pretty decent horse to break square as you know.




    This says to me that you’re very out of touch with the industry not only because you think it’s Megan but mainly the fact you think that’s the reason he’s not getting drives.
    I didn’t say that there can’t be a bottom of course there’s always going to be, any competitive sport is tiered I’m saying we shouldn’t change the world to suit the bottom.
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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    Ivorytrunkey86 said:

    Is it good news for harness racing if crown is stripped of its license as I was just reading

    Ivory the opening of the Casino had a huge impact on the Trots but regrettably any closure would be very short term as Tony has alluded to.
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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    5,006 posts
    Couple of good points
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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    5,006 posts
    edited February 2021
    Rocket you seem to really struggle with the concept that without the bottom there can be no top. Often you’ve said if you can’t compete you should go do something else or words to that effect.

    Just look at some really basic maths.

    What percentage of horses in WA do you think cover there purchase costs along with day to day upkeep over their career? I’ll be really generous and say 20%

    How many horses in WA, keep it simple say 1000. So from 1000 horses 200 pay their way, make a bit of money, some chances at some bigger returns, give owners something to reinvest etc. Everyone is fighting to be one of those 200 horses. Top trainers have most but rightfully as you say the bottom guys should be fighting hard to be successful too.

    Now that bottom 80% of horses are by and large going to be with the people you are encouraging to find another hobby, not interested in coming up with ways that maybe every-now and then on their way to the track they feel they might be in it to win it with their battler, enough to keep them interested.

    So they take your advice and go find another hobby. We fall to a horse population of 500 horses. What happens then? RWWA program less races, programs fall over etc. So it will still be if we are lucky that the top 20% of prize money earners continue to pay their way. Now that pool of horses has fallen to only 100 that everyone is still competing to be one of. Less drives for drivers to make money from, less positive returns for even the top stables to then be able to go and reboot the stables. Suddenly it just got a shit load harder for even the very best to scratch out a living.

    Instead of thinking, if you want to stay in it you need to get better it is in the best interest of those at the top to keep those at the bottom in the game, without participation it just becomes cannibalism.

    curmudgeon, VillageKid, savethegame, cisco likes this post.

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  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    702 posts
    Well said Gilgamesh, the industry can not give 1 more participant any reason to leave.

    And we can see by the fields at GP Tuesday night the meeting was lucky to get enough acceptors.

    Wonder if they are still blaming the late season change like the last meeting that was canned.
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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,311 posts
    Dibaba and Art Tutor went on their winning ways last night at Newcastle  - and both super impressive 

    Both beautifully placed - 9.7 k races and 5k to the winner - so Dibaba is now 3 from 3 and 15k in the bank 

    Art Tutor was out of this world - did plenty of work ( half a lap to get the lead from wide gate ) rated 1.54.8 for 2030 thats slick - track record is 1.54.1 - held by The Black Prince - who last night won the 100k Newcastle mile 

    Stand by my comment that Art Tutor will win 2-3 at Menangle - got an interesting trainer - on face value you have to say he does a fantastic  job - only got about 3-4 cast offs - but they all go like gazelles 

    In summation - i think WA have got the best horses - thats why they go so well over east 

    You look at a horse like Born a Tiger - won its 1st race in years last night - pity its 10 - if it was 8 it would be a perfect horse for NSW -  even at 10 - it would win 5 or 6 races over their - its got  no hope of doing that in WA - simply because in my opinion - accross the board - WA horses  are better quality 

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    It would be interesting to see a cost benefit analysis of running a 6 race 49 horse GP Tuesday Meeting with the 8 race 76 horse Sunday Meeting at Collie. GP would have to pay for bar staff, kitchen staff, track prep, gate officials,swabbing staff, judges, ground keepers,timekeepers etc etc which I would suggest would all be done on a volunteer basis at Collie (and other community clubs). The current thought bubble which would see Collie meetings run at Bunbury or Kellerberrin meetings at Northam etc etc(retaining "club status" but just racing at an alternative venue) is so ridiculous and insulting as to defy belief.

    The thought that volunteers, committee members and others would trek down the road to run a meeting at another clubs established venue is fantasy land. A clubs mere existence is intrinsically linked to its home track which, without meetings, would simply shut up shop....so another track disappears, local interest disappears, local trainers, owners and breeders disappear and shrinkage of the industry would continue as was evident when Kalgoorlie, Cunderdin, Trayning, Merredin, York, Katanning, Harvey, Wyalkatchem etc were all shut under the misnomer of "industry consolidation". Death of the industry by a thousand cuts, start playing the funeral music.

    Of course, part of the defense of the "race at three tracks" brigade is the lowering of costs....for whom?....for those that reside nearby, that's for whom. For locals, who are racing for lesser stakemoney at Collie on a Sunday when the hobbyist can actually race without taking time of work, and costing the industry very little (albeit the turnover factor must be acknowledged), a decision to shut down any track would be detrimental to the industry long term (there should be a drive, a thought process and positive strategies to expand, not contract) and in the process will remove an important part of the fabric of having a regional base in those towns affected. I will guarantee that Collie will be rollicking along on Sunday whereas Gloucester Park will battle to attract a decent posse of seagulls.

    Someone else posted that self interest is the driving thought behind this shallow knee jerk response to a council digging a trench across a track ....that Ladies and Gentleman is what it is all about, nothing more, nothing less.


    savethegame, Arapaho, jum likes this post.

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    I take issue that Harvey was closed due to industry consolidation JayJay. The closure of Harvey was completely due to the owners of the property and the Club being unable to work through their differences and RWWA tried very hard to broker a solution without success. York was also out of RWWA's hands with the Council wanting to use the trotting track for other purposes. The building of another facility at York at considerable cost to the industry was not an option with very few local horses and Northam only 30 minutes away..
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  • maybesomaybeso    84 posts
    Chariotsonfire said:

    I take issue that Harvey was closed due to industry consolidation JayJay. The closure of Harvey was completely due to the owners of the property and the Club being unable to work through their differences and RWWA tried very hard to broker a solution without success. York was also out of RWWA's hands with the Council wanting to use the trotting track for other purposes. The building of another facility at York at considerable cost to the industry was not an option with very few local horses and Northam only 30 minutes away..

    The Harvey track site was for sale for quite a while after the track was closed to racing. I remember the ad for it stating that it would be a perfect set up for a training facility. From memory it took a year or so to sell.
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  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Okay, point taken on Harvey, I was just running through a list of tracks that once formed the fabric of trotting in WA. Subs: Harvey off,  Geraldton on (not that the Geraldton concept ever looked like being viable). There is a track at York inside the gallops track.

    Does the correction of taking Harvey off the Consolidation Express alter the failed outcome of a shrinking industry being the final outcome?
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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,311 posts
    Best example - and i have given it before ( but i will go into more specifics ) contrasting the current heartless mob ( who place no emphasis on history - or hope for that matter ) running the WA Trots compared to harness racing NSW 

    You look at Kalgoorlie ( 550 klms from Perth )  - rich harness racing history - ok its got the tyranny of distance problem - no arguement - but  to just completely kill them off - and not give them say 2 TAB meetings a year ( heat and final of K Cup ) is heartless - how they have killed them off - reminds me of  my grandfather ( who had a diary and sheep farm in the 60s ) he would grab a chook in the woodheap area - put its head over the block - and then with the axe - bang  and didnt blink - didnt show any emotion at all - thats like what they have done to Kal 

    You contrast that to Broken Hill which is a quiet 1143 klms from Sydney - and if you have ever stayed their ( which i have ) for all intent purposes it is a South Aust town - ( hell of alot closer to Adel ) and its got South Aust newspapers - South Aust TV and radio - however because its geographically in NSW then HRNSW give them the courtesy ( and fund it ) 2 TAB meetings a year - heats one week then a 15k cup and 15k derby 

    Thats shows the difference - one mob have got a heart and a sense of history - and the other mob havent - and guess which mob are going down the drain
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  • RoyboyRoyboy    27 posts
    Harvey track hasn’t been sold. Don’t think RWWA tried very hard or it would still be open!Club had 300k in the bank !!
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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    edited February 2021
    Royboy I was personally involved and did try very hard to keep it open. RWWA made an offer to purchase the property which was rejected by the owners. Easy to take potshots when you don't know the full story.
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    100% Marko very well put.
    Tyranny of distance was just an excuse pretty sure the only time Charlotte Mills went to Kal trots was to close it down.
    Bit out there but could Kal restart under another state ie South Australia.
    If they have the sponsorship as they say can it be done.
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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    5,006 posts
    Don’t know Hayden Reeves at all but he deserves a medal for taking on some of the horses he has over the last 12 months and then to even be able to get wins out of them, huge effort.

    Constantlybroke likes this post.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Agree Gilga without him NO ALBANY.
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Besides that he is doing a great job.
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  • ashleighmpashleighmp    34 posts
    edited February 2021
    Plus he’s incredibly good looking! ;-)

    He works so hard to get horses going that most wouldn’t want.

    Rocket_Reign, Constantlybroke, Gilgamesh, JimmyPop likes this post.

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  • ArapahoArapaho    393 posts
    Good old Tabtouch, such professionals,,have omitted race 4 at Collie on there site hoping no one wants to have a early Quaddie or place a bet on that race.
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  • maybesomaybeso    84 posts
    Harvey track hasn’t been sold. Don’t think RWWA tried very hard or it would still be open!Club had 300k in the bank !!
    The track has been up for sale a couple of times, the last time was last year? I couldn't remember the asking price. Any idea?

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  • ashleighmpashleighmp    34 posts
    maybeso said:

    Harvey track hasn’t been sold. Don’t think RWWA tried very hard or it would still be open!Club had 300k in the bank !!
    The track has been up for sale a couple of times, the last time was last year? I couldn't remember the asking price. Any idea?




    Around $1 million from memory
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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    Owners wanted a modest rental and Club was not prepared to pay.

    RWWA could not justify spending $1m on a track located within half an hour of Bunbury and Pinjarra.

    In the early days of RWWA Harvey was recommended for closure but their KPIs exceeded both Pinjarra and Bunbury and I fought for retention. Things changed under the new ownership.
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  • maybesomaybeso    84 posts
    I used to love going to Harvey. It was one of my favourite tracks to go to. Much nicer than Bunbury. It helped they had some of the nicest food served at a race course.

    JimmyPop, freodockers likes this post.

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