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Graduation Races

West Australian Racing
Attended the Races on Sat heard a rumour
The Graduation races are making a comeback ??
Anybody else heard anything ?

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,930 posts
    edited January 2016
    What was the old order..think it might have been...Maiden..Improvers..Graduation..Transition.. Progressive..Trial..Open. Got the first 2 and last 2 right but not 100% sure about the middle 3.
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    wasn't there a "purse" and an "advance" in there somewhere?
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,930 posts
    Definitely yes an 'advance' rings a bell. Purse might have been a bit before my time, but I've heard of 'purse' in American racing that's for sure.
  • trustygustytrustygusty    103 posts
    They're calling them graduation races. But they are more or less 1MW races.
  • bookieloverbookielover    2,708 posts
    We had "Intermediate" races here in Vic.
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    brady said:

    Attended the Races on Sat heard a rumour
    The Graduation races are making a comeback ??
    Anybody else heard anything ?

    well they will be nothing like the old graduations.

    these one's are simply 62+ handicap races and just 1kg theoretically stronger than the nonsensical 60+ races that should only have been run at provincials or midweeks.
    with the added condition that they have only won one or zero metro races.
    so once a horse wins 2 of these it's goodbye, you have to jump to a 72+ next go, which is a whopping 5kg gap from 1 class to the next.
  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    You forgot Novice.
  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    Trial I'm pretty sure was the last step to open company.

    thefalcon likes this post.

  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    ...and that great welter as the last race....

    SLIPPERGOLDEN, jum likes this post.

  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    8,410 posts
    You beat me to it Falcon. 
  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    edited January 2016
    The following race types will be programmed from 30 January 2016:

    Metropolitan Prime:
    2YO Open
    3YO Graduation Handicap (1 or less metro wins)
    3YO Open
    3UP Graduation Handicap (1 or less metro wins)
    3UP RTG 72+ Handicap
    3UP RTG 78+ Handicap
    Open Sprint/Handicap

    The ‘Graduation Handicaps’ ‘programmed at metropolitan prime meetings are designed to act as a transition for progressive provincial horses to graduate to Saturday grade by racing against like horses. These races are restricted to horses that have won only one (1) or less metropolitan races in their career. It is expected this will become a very attractive race type for Owners to secure a Saturday win for their horse.

    From CRIS here
  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    Not to mention it covers up for the lack of genuine Saturday class horses.
  • careycarey    6,424 posts

    Not to mention it covers up for the lack of genuine Saturday class horses.

    i doubt perth racing is any worse as far as horse ability goes than it has been in days past.
    the entire problem lay at the feet of the racing department of rwwa which destroyed the class system in wa.

    since the present incumbents have been here, there have been numerous changes to the class system and each one has simply been to try and fix the stuff up of the previous one.
    and of course all they have done is make it worse.
    they have proven they are not up to the task, but when you have a job for life regardless of how inept you are this is what happens.

    @Legless , I am impressed, they have finally got off their arses and released a new template.
    the first published update since march 2014, despite the fact that there had been at least 2 changes since that time.
    so not only are they inept as far as the class system goes, they are also inept at keeping participants up to date.
  • loose_gooseloose_goose    2,135 posts
    edited January 2016
    Maiden, Improver, Progresive, Intermeadiate, Advanced, Approved, Novice, Encourage, Trial, Open Country all class to Advanced then Open, provincial Maidens Advanced Approved and Open. Thats how i remembered it with a foggy memory

    ColourfulRD likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Going to see a mass retirement of horses, which is the only problem (when already struggling with numbers anyway).
  • GaryHGaryH    1,012 posts
    Tivers said:

    Going to see a mass retirement of horses, which is the only problem (when already struggling with numbers anyway).

    Yes, but that means more people will have to buy new horses every couple of years, instead of trying to find the right ratings races for them.....  Go MM sales!   >:)
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Conspiricy theory ?
    Breeders are behind the change ?
  • GaryHGaryH    1,012 posts
    Tivers said:

    Conspiricy theory ?

    Breeders are behind the change ?
    And Owners Only isn't actually by the owners for the owners.....  its run by the breeders to drives sales....  Take that one to the bank too...   :D

    The_Bull, Legless likes this post.

  • snipersniper    236 posts
    What a crock of ****! Owners Only is run by RWWA as an initiative, Thoroughbred Breeders can barely run there own place these days, they are crumbling at the seams.
  • snipersniper    236 posts
    Going back to the old system will only benefit racing in WA, the rating system is the main pain for all trainers, owners and jockeys. It will take a few months but it will work just as it did in the old days. It amazes me that you all bag the **** out of the ratings system and then they bring something in to help and you all bag it without it even taking place, now I am really starting to believe that is why people don't try and show inititative because they get torn to pieces, well done RWWA and David Hunter

    Darkhorse likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    edited January 2016
    ?
    I've never bagged the ratings system.

    About half my current stable is going to be forced in to retirement due to the change back though. That or flounder around midfield or worse running around out of their (current) grade .............no thanks.

    Winsumlosesum likes this post.

  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts

    wait and see the proof of the pudding, tivs.

    with respect you must be one of the very few not bagging the current system.

    Winsumlosesum dislikes this post.

  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    sniper said:

    Going back to the old system will only benefit racing in WA, the rating system is the main pain for all trainers, owners and jockeys. It will take a few months but it will work just as it did in the old days. It amazes me that you all bag the **** out of the ratings system and then they bring something in to help and you all bag it without it even taking place, now I am really starting to believe that is why people don't try and show inititative because they get torn to pieces, well done RWWA and David Hunter

    you need to study up, because it is N O T H I N G like the old(and very good) system.
    so they are NOT going back to the old system at all.
    all they have done is some window dressing, though i guess it has fooled some people, some guy called sniper being one of them

    Fastmoney, ColourfulRD likes this post.

  • SuperSnoopSuperSnoop    164 posts
    sniper said:

    Going back to the old system will only benefit racing in WA, the rating system is the main pain for all trainers, owners and jockeys. It will take a few months but it will work just as it did in the old days. It amazes me that you all bag the **** out of the ratings system and then they bring something in to help and you all bag it without it even taking place, now I am really starting to believe that is why people don't try and show inititative because they get torn to pieces, well done RWWA and David Hunter

    You have NFI!!
    ratings based handicapping works well in other states, but is busted in WA.
    Why do you think that is??
  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    sniper said:

    Going back to the old system will only benefit racing in WA, the rating system is the main pain for all trainers, owners and jockeys. It will take a few months but it will work just as it did in the old days. It amazes me that you all bag the **** out of the ratings system and then they bring something in to help and you all bag it without it even taking place, now I am really starting to believe that is why people don't try and show inititative because they get torn to pieces, well done RWWA and David Hunter


    :-? Must be a very old system. This is nothing like the class 1-6 system that used to exist prior to RBH
  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    edited January 2016

    sniper said:

    Going back to the old system will only benefit racing in WA, the rating system is the main pain for all trainers, owners and jockeys. It will take a few months but it will work just as it did in the old days. It amazes me that you all bag the **** out of the ratings system and then they bring something in to help and you all bag it without it even taking place, now I am really starting to believe that is why people don't try and show inititative because they get torn to pieces, well done RWWA and David Hunter

    You have NFI!!
    ratings based handicapping works well in other states, but is busted in WA.
    Why do you think that is??
    because they saw the error of their ways a lot quicker than this mob and fairly quickly reintroduced class races
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    Legless said:


    :-? Must be a very old system. This is nothing like the class 1-6 system that used to exist prior to RBH

    as you would already know legless, it is nothing like anything old.
    it is simply rwwa racing department having their 35467th attempt at getting it right, and like the other 35466 it is nonsensical, and will make exactly no difference.

    it must be easy to pull the wool over sniper's eyes.
    or maybe sniper just need any excuse to have a snipe at those of us that are critical of mr hunter's skills!!.......or lack of.
    come to think of it maybe snipers real name is david!!


    jum likes this post.

  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    edited January 2016
    Is this right?

    Gelding wins his maiden - gets 4 points = rating 64

    If he starts in a class 1 midweeker he gets 60kg

    If he jumps a couple of grades and starts in a clas 3 midweeker he gets 58kg

    If he jumps leaps a few more grades and starts in a clas 5 midweeker he gets 56kg


    If I have read this correctly the apprentices are going to be busy
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    Legless said:

    Is this right?

    Gelding wins his maiden - gets 4 points = rating 64

    If he starts in a class 1 midweeker he gets 60kg

    If he jumps a couple of grades and starts in a clas 3 midweeker he gets 58kg

    If he jumps leaps a few more grades and starts in a clas 5 midweeker he gets 56kg


    If I have read this correctly the apprentices are going to be busy


    where did you read that legless.
    dunno about future but a maiden winner at 'prov a' venues gets 62 usually, not that i think it is correct.
    that means 59kg in an unscaled 'class 1'
    in a 'class 3' it equates to 57kg
    55kg in a 'class 5'

    that a maiden winner would not be on minimum in a class 3 or a class 5 in ridiculous in the extreme.
    but they have a history of 'ridiculous'.

    it always amuses me when handicappers do these nice neat little scales, and decide that there is 'X' number of kg between this class and any other.

    the gap between a maiden and a class 1 is in fact more than the notional 2kg that they think it is, and just do by 'rote'
    and it is certainly MUCH more than they think in relation to higher grade races.

    of course i don't care what they do these days, i am done, but it is still interesting to try and figure their logic.

    but even more important than the class nonsense is their alienation of punters, by letting everything get run down.
    the timers for the races just about everywhere these days have gone on strike.
    the sections are now almost non-existent.
    the photo finish system keeps breaking down.
    they can't get races to jump in a timely fashion.
    and they wonder why turnover is in freefall.

    they need to spend some time mending bridges with the punters, because without them they have NOTHING,.....well not quite correct....they have the Eastern states.
    and maybe that is why they neglect wa because it is the Eastern states that keeps wa racing afloat.

  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    carey said:


    Legless said:

    Is this right?

    Gelding wins his maiden - gets 4 points = rating 64

    If he starts in a class 1 midweeker he gets 60kg

    If he jumps a couple of grades and starts in a clas 3 midweeker he gets 58kg

    If he jumps leaps a few more grades and starts in a clas 5 midweeker he gets 56kg


    If I have read this correctly the apprentices are going to be busy


    where did you read that legless.
    dunno about future but a maiden winner at 'prov a' venues gets 62 usually, not that i think it is correct.
    brain fade :\">
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