Belmont Wednesday 13 August

Import · August 2014

therealkramer
Strangely enough was rewatching that Marasco win just the other day.
It was amazing enough seeing the acceleration and sheer speed around the bend and early in the straight.
For the horse to then cannon into the rail as it did and win like that was amazing, and I vividly remember watching it many times over at the time.

therealkramer · August 2014

@import...I posted that video because @Bookielover said he'd never seen a horse hit the rail and win even though the circumstances were different to the Big Jack run. I thought Marasco did enough to almost throw away the race, such was his reaction despite his huge lead. The new plastic running rails were lauded by racing pundits when they were introduced because they 'bounced' back when a horse bumped them. Big Jack must've thought the rail was jumping out at him and freaked out.

Shane Dye was reminded by his ride on Veandercross for the rest of his career although not all experts agree he slaughtered the horse. But if the fix ever was in you would expect that a horse would need to be well backed to make it worthwhile. The punters' fuming reaction to Dye's tactics even 20yrs later tells you Veandercross was no 100-1 shot.

sonny · August 2014

Hi Rio,Just doing the form and Iam finding it hard going to find winners. How about we pick the same horses and deadheat and both go on to next week (just joking)?

RIO · August 2014

geez I loved watching Marasco..What a sensational big horse he was..Regularly destroyed that Universal Ruler piece of never will be....haha..an in joke with the UR boys and not a serious comment.

Marasco is the reason I never warmed to Holland Photography. Our horse once got piped on the post by UR - we were taking massive ground off of him - and Marasco finished 4th. I went to our ex track photographer and said even though we didn't win I wanted that picture so that I had proof that we beat Marasco in a race. Paid for it up front..and waited...and waited..and waited...and waited.

Chased him many times over the next 6 months and never came up with the photo...

Please ignore and get back to fence crashing.. Just reminiscing about the great Marasco

sonny · August 2014

Posted on the wrong post. Sorry

RIO · August 2014

sonny said:
Hi Rio,Just doing the form and Iam finding it hard going to find winners. How about we pick the same horses and deadheat and both go on to next week (just joking)?

wrong thread but great idea to hide the idea where no one will read it..

I know how that bastard Chris works and if we drew he'd say you had to get through as you had finished higher up the ladder!!!

Well one of us is down to the last 4, so at the end of today we have a 25% chance of success...More than I usually work on when having a bet!!

therealkramer · August 2014

@Rio I backed Pompeii Ruler the day it got of the canvas and edged Marasco in the St George Stakes at Caulfied. Interestingly, Craig 'Froggy' Newitt lists PR as his fav all time horse and he rode Light Fantastic, Miss Andretti and more recently Lankan Rupee. He may change his mind after LP retires but it's a huge wrap on PR all the same

therealkramer · August 2014

Pompeii Ruler looked home in the 2006 Cox Plate for a stride or two when he turned for home. Was only beaten 0.3 of a length by Fields Of Omagh & El Segundo. I think I only backed him in the St. George Stakes & Aust. Cup but he was definitely one of my favs when I was still going to the races. Never saw him in the flesh but I remember watching the St. George Stakes on a monitor @ Rosehill, it was a heck of a finish. You don't get that kind of atmosphere at home. Ten blokes around a screen can make a lot of noise-only ever topped by God's Own's win in the Guineas. That's the sort of thing that should be in advertisements. Not scripted acting. Real reactions of people winning real money. You could have got thousands to the races on the back of the noise and excitement of the Caulfield Guineas miracle.

RIO · August 2014

Yeah what a great race.. that was a campaign of so close yet so far for the mighty Marasco.

I got on him e/w at the start of the campaign and was so convinced after his first run that I just went straight out after that run...cost me a fortune!!!! And wasn't smart enough with my betting to play the novelties properly in those days.

Think he got his only win in his next campaign over there against another all time favourite of everyone's..Apache Cat...But memory not as good as it should be....Marasco a great horse for WA, and as I had missed all the Northerly hype(too busy working hard) it certainly cemented in my mind how good Fred could get his horses..

RIO · August 2014

Marasco and Hay List are the two most impressionable horse I have ever stood next to..

Hay List for his sheer size, and Marasco for his muscle development.. Elite horses, how good would it be to see them week in week out...

Advertise that.. a normal 6ft guy standing next to Hay List snorting and blowing after a great run, towering over an excited punter...Just we don't have horses with that presence her for very long... When they are they need to be milked for all their worth to the general public..

therealkramer · August 2014

I think if you showed punters reacting to horses win like you would any other sporting event. Those watching can put themselves in that position. I don't think there are many other sports where the spectator can take as much satisfaction out of the result..Maybe soccer or 'football' but that's where I would be concentrating the advertising budget.

therealkramer · August 2014

@Rio - I was on track to see Northerly win his 2nd Cox Plate. Backed him in a double(my only bet) with Spining Hill at 13-1 so was a very good day. Saw him get beaten in the Ranvet too but he was fighting back on the line when he saw the other horse. He had my eternal respect after that 2nd place.

thefalcon · August 2014

talking of emotional scenes...when that young female jock won, I think the blue diamond, 2013 ....all day the tv replayed her parents reaction...great stuff.
horse 3 words..starts with M...... :-?

therealkramer · August 2014

the falcon said:
talking of emotional scenes...when that young female jock won, I think the blue diamond, 2013 ....all day the tv replayed her parents reaction...great stuff.
horse 3 words..starts with M...... :-?

Miracles Of Life. It was a miracle the way she was let out of that pocket :-\"

As for her dad......overacting

thefalcon · August 2014

pocket unzipped...in the blue diamond....rubbish!!
overacting..rubbish also, they are from a very emotional ethnic group.
bit harsh there, Kramer... :-w

therealkramer · August 2014

the falcon said:
pocket unzipped...in the blue diamond....rubbish!!
overacting..rubbish also, they are from a very emotional ethnic group.
bit harsh there, Kramer... :-w

Unzipped? Didn't look like the jock on her outside tried very hard to keep her where she was. Some people do strange things when a camera is pointed at them. Oliver after his cup win was authentic all the others since i.e Newitt, Berry have seemed choreographed to me.

bookielover · August 2014

TRK, the fact that you would compare a horse like Marasco who was 8 in front with about 150 to go when he brushed the rail, to an ordinary steed like big Jack, is patently ridiculous. Marasco was a top horse and I don't think ewe got to see the best of him here.

He won that race, but hitting the rail, still cost him a couple of lengths. If he had only been a half length in front at the time with other horses finishing on, he couldn't have won.

therealkramer · August 2014

bookielover said:
TRK, the fact that you would compare a horse like Marasco who was 8 in front with about 150 to go when he brushed the rail, to an ordinary steed like big Jack, is patently ridiculous. Marasco was a top horse and I don't think ewe got to see the best of him here.

He won that race, but hitting the rail, still cost him a couple of lengths. If he had only been a half length in front at the time with other horses finishing on, he couldn't have won.

And if he went through the rail-remember those Aluminium ones used to have no give in them-he would not have won. The point is Big Jack brushed the (plastic)rail by comparison. But you didn't watch the race and I'm guessing you didn't watch any of the preceding seven races either? Rail brush or not-it COULD NOT win back there-and would have been nowhere near the rail had it gone forward- but the support in the betting $3.6-$2.8 seemed to indicate it was there to win.

therealkramer · August 2014

Nothing in the Steward report about hitting the rail in any case. Apparently tried to jump a section of the track.

BIG JACK (Lucy Warwick) – Approaching the 600m the gelding attempted to jump a section of the track and shortly after mis-strode and blundered for no apparent reason with the rider becoming unbalanced and then the gelding failing to run on in the straight. A post race Veterinary examination revealed no abnormalities. Trainer Mr G. Williams was shown a film of this incident and undertook to monitor the gelding’s recovery and advise Stewards accordingly. Following the race Stewards conducted an inspection of the track between the 500m and the 600m to ascertain whether the reaction of the gelding had any relevance to the track surface. Stewards deemed the track surface in this area to be consistent and safe.
FLYING ZOE

therealkramer · August 2014

Tbh I think he grazed the rail at most. He seemed to get very close to it and then sidestepped it.

Dale · August 2014

therealkramer said:
@Rio - I was on track to see Northerly win his 2nd Cox Plate. Backed him in a double(my only bet) with Spining Hill at 13-1 so was a very good day. Saw him get beaten in the Ranvet too but he was fighting back on the line when he saw the other horse. He had my eternal respect after that 2nd place.

I didn't back northerly but you have reminded me about my first $500 bet on spinning hill. The sandy hollow pub went off that night. More relief than excitment

therealkramer · August 2014

Dale said:

therealkramer said:
@Rio - I was on track to see Northerly win his 2nd Cox Plate. Backed him in a double(my only bet) with Spining Hill at 13-1 so was a very good day. Saw him get beaten in the Ranvet too but he was fighting back on the line when he saw the other horse. He had my eternal respect after that 2nd place.
I didn't back northerly but you have reminded me about my first $500 bet on spinning hill. The sandy hollow pub went off that night. More relief than excitment

The look the doubles bookie gave me when I collected was a classic. It was like "Hey, this is supposed to be for the mugs" . It was only a $1400 collect but back then it was a big deal-was down in Melbourne for the week-Would have stayed on too if Northerly had run in the Cup. I should add I hated Sunline with a passion at this stage of her career so I got added satisfaction from seeing her beaten by the champ. The raced panned out exactly as I thought so I basically stopped betting after Spinning Hill got up. I was very confident of collecting, I almost had another go at the $4, Northerly.

therealkramer · August 2014

@Bookielover- The only ridiculous assertion is that Big Jack's shadow jumping/rail grazing effort had any effect on its chances. It was gone as soon as Lucy restrained it and eased over to the rail. Put your Bookies hat on for a minute-I'm sure you have it close by-and ask yourself where you would want to see a fav positioned in the run when it's been backed $3.60-$2.80 and the leaders have been winning all day? You don't need to answer I can see you smiling from here.

bookielover · August 2014

Ho Hum :D

brady · August 2014

therealkramer said:
@Bookielover- The only ridiculous assertion is that Big Jack's shadow jumping/rail grazing effort had any effect on its chances. It was gone as soon as Lucy restrained it and eased over to the rail. Put your Bookies hat on for a minute-I'm sure you have it close by-and ask yourself where you would want to see a fav positioned in the run when it's been backed $3.60-$2.80 and the leaders have been winning all day? You don't need to answer I can see you smiling from here.

Big jack is a get back horse who has no early speed
Was always going to be tough for it to win
Yep I was on at the 3.80
When it did win came from the back out wide when you change a horses run pattern they don't always
Perform well

therealkramer · August 2014

brady said:

therealkramer said:
@Bookielover- The only ridiculous assertion is that Big Jack's shadow jumping/rail grazing effort had any effect on its chances. It was gone as soon as Lucy restrained it and eased over to the rail. Put your Bookies hat on for a minute-I'm sure you have it close by-and ask yourself where you would want to see a fav positioned in the run when it's been backed $3.60-$2.80 and the leaders have been winning all day? You don't need to answer I can see you smiling from here.
Big jack is a get back horse who has no early speed
Was always going to be tough for it to win
Yep I was on at the 3.80
When it did win came from the back out wide when you change a horses run pattern they don't always
Perform well

The track was a dead 5 that day. Totally different as they could win from back in the field, and the majority of winners that day did. The last two starts Big Jack was in the first four in running. I thought Lucy would press forward but the jockeys on rivals might go a bit too keen and over do it, as often happens when a bias is obvious. Even in that scenario BJ would have in the firing line, not back with the cab catchers.

thefalcon · August 2014

maybe BJ felt a bit poorly that day.
unlike us, animals cannot talk...lets just leave it at that.

peleus · August 2014

Saw that too. It was too close.

Import · August 2014

Big Jack may not have hit the rail but something certainly did. You can see the rail clearly moving quite a bit before Big Jack blundered badly.
It's hard to see on the replay but Butterfly Kiss, who was obviously travelling in advance of Big Jack, certainly seems to react to something aswell.

G'day Punter!

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