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upcoming mm sales

Breeding

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  • HenleyBrookHenleyBrook    408 posts
    I think in WA, breeders either expect a stallion to upgrade their mare or good mares to upgrade their stallion. The last stallion to upgrade just about any mare was Metal Storm. He was a freak and before him it was Haulpak. So it has been a long time inbetween drinks.

    If a breeder is relying on a stallion to upgrade their mare, they should get rid of it. Breeders should have confidence that they can send their mare to any stallion and produce a nice horse on type. If it is known prior to breeding that a mare was a bad eater, drinker and had various issues, regardless of its breeding page, a horse of such should not go to stud. Seeing as fewer of our stallions are now classed as being "not commercial" but are commanding high fees, good mares are dissapearing over east because the deals being offered on proven stallions are far more competitive.
  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    i think the mentality is ,if you have a good horse then why would you sell it and as such is why all the sales except the yearling sales carry not much hope or support . but how do you change mentality ????
    i do like the idea of a 2yo breeze up or ready to run sale as a few good ones would come out of it and change the mentality a bit as well as support the other sales with people looking at buying weanlings,yearling with a view to on sell in a 2yo sale where at the moment people think if a yearling isn't in the yearling sale then it has some thing wrong with it or wasn't good enough for it ,with a 2yo sale it would create a new market for weanlings and yearling with a view to on sell as well as getting the interest back from the oversea's markets as well?

    Tivers likes this post.

  • SPUDLEYSPUDLEY    1,584 posts
    Weanlings are mainly only put in sales as stud farm culls either they have faults ( most do ) or they are not worth keepingto prep for the yearling sales as they are too small or backward types . So it would be very hard to create a new form of sale from them, the only way I would do it is go over east and buy from their weanling sales as even though they would be culls from the bigger studs as least there may be a diamond amongst the rough as one of my former stud owners did he bought a filly there for $26000 who turned out to be a half to a Golden Slipper winner.

    What the people who attempt to breed any horse over here should really do is think commercially with every mating planned that is if they plan to sell which means any mare that is not black-type should be questioned as being commercially viable. A lot of mares currently being bred from just are not worth it, if we want compete with the studs over east breeders here need to be a bit ruthless I even include myself in this.
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Bought an Oaks winner from the Weanling Sale, and an 11 time $400k winner, and a G3 winner, and another Listed winner, and...........................that's just off the top of my head
    (And only one of those four was from Gold Coast)
  • SPUDLEYSPUDLEY    1,584 posts
    Very lucky or just a good judge or probably both.
  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    i was going to suggest a numbers game spudley. You buy enough your bound to get a good one eventually....Um, hang on, not that is my policy.....Sorry Tivers. :))

    To be serious for a change i said it before but i have no idea on how to judge weanlings..good fortune to you if you can.
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Easier than yearlings, because you see the real / raw horse

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  • wedgewedge    269 posts
    rather than this 'im not going to knock a stud for having a crack and standing stallion XYZ' how about the the breeders association set some 'quality guidelines' and a 10 year plan
    with some of the new ones standing here this year they should get used to fetching $300 in the sales ring
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    8,011 posts
    edited April 2013
    wedge said:

    rather than this 'im not going to knock a stud for having a crack and standing stallion XYZ' how about the the breeders association set some 'quality guidelines' and a 10 year plan
    with some of the new ones standing here this year they should get used to fetching $300 in the sales ring

    I can send a mare to Planet Five for $2200 if I book prior to the season starting and get 15-20 times that for a conformed yearling in the ring based on what I saw on Sunday. I said he was very athletic last year when I saw him paraded at Touchstone, and his stock looks it as well so far.

    But I am trying to, with others, get WA Breeders to come shopping next month on the Gold Coast and bring home some medium quality mares that will bolster local ranks heading towards premier sales in the years ahead.

    I think we just need to address the problem head on.
    Planet Five Racing cleaned up.jpg
    2835 x 1890 - 1M
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    8,011 posts
    In respect to the Breeders Association, they firstly need to regain a presence at sales. Their absence is an embarrassment. They really need to re-establish the ties with Asia. Whilst in Adelaide I couldn't get over the buying bench and what they contested were not a patch on what we had to offer in Perth.
  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    Damien
    re: breeders association . was that a fall out with mm?? a few years ago when mm were spruking oratorio and the breeders called a big meeting ect bit before my time but remember a little or was that something else
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    8,011 posts
    lame said:

    Damien
    re: breeders association . was that a fall out with mm?? a few years ago when mm were spruking oratorio and the breeders called a big meeting ect bit before my time but remember a little or was that something else

    I don't know if I ever attended that meeting.
  • wedgewedge    269 posts
    we have the ability to forge a strong reputation within the breeding industry due to our geographic isolation, not unlike NZ

    the 80s was interesting when dempster and co tipped a fair amount into buying quality race fillies with pedigree and then breeding from them. even if the foals were not put thru the sales, the pedigrees eventually made their way into sales rings and we had some quality for years to come. now those mares are 3rd/4th dam and things are looking very very weak on the page come sales tme.

    considering the bigger players with some cash around this joint, they should be looking at quality not quantity... that will get your asian buyers here again

    everyone in this aspect of the industry should be thinking along the same line, be proactive and encourage QUALITY.....
  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    the price the buyers are paying is encouraging quality isn't it?? i mean if it isn't up to the mark, no-one is buying. So that pressure has been growing for the past 2 or 3 seasons and yet people are only just starting to say how serious the situation is...or how something drastic has to happen.

    If we get quality broodmares we are still taking another couple of years to get ourselves sorted. As an owner i'd be close to suggesting that the reaction that you talk about is getting to be too little too late. it has been better to go east and get quality for the past 2-3 years. it is now affordable for most buyers to do that.

    Any changes (broodmare stock) that come through now will only get on the tailcoats of that trend. The breeders have a long struggle to get quality back into the local breeding market. And one that will take years to re-establish. IMO..as a buyer.

    SPUDLEY likes this post.

  • firemansamfiremansam    15 posts
    We as an industry can liken our situation to the current cattle industry , that is an oversupply of product and a loss of traditional markets/buyers. Yes now is the time for the wholesale product to be drastically reassessed to maximise profitability, product quality etc
    Existing producers have to address herd quality and set the precedence as responsible livestock producers. The TB breeders Assoc are on the job with their upcoming R&D Levy seminars and submission process, however the industry needs also to address long term sustainability of the product. Production,R&D, retailers such as MM &RWWA are all established components that make up this amazing industry..the next step is to assist the industry in setting up a nationally recognised product wastage program, to ensure animal welfare is adhered to and industry participants have recognised and structured wastage pathways.....

    wedge, SPUDLEY likes this post.

  • wedgewedge    269 posts

    We as an industry can liken our situation to the current cattle industry , that is an oversupply of product and a loss of traditional markets/buyers. Yes now is the time for the wholesale product to be drastically reassessed to maximise profitability, product quality etc
    Existing producers have to address herd quality and set the precedence as responsible livestock producers. The TB breeders Assoc are on the job with their upcoming R&D Levy seminars and submission process, however the industry needs also to address long term sustainability of the product. Production,R&D, retailers such as MM &RWWA are all established components that make up this amazing industry..the next step is to assist the industry in setting up a nationally recognised product wastage program, to ensure animal welfare is adhered to and industry participants have recognised and structured wastage pathways.....

    absolutely agree

    crappy bulls and mares ultimately lead to a problem, especially if there is no commercial value

    get rid of quantity and breed quality

    what is quality? if you guys think blackfriars or oratorio is quality then you had better re-calibrate the system, not potting the local breeding just trying to raise the bar!

    quality needs to be considered quality by east coast standards, stop saying 'yeah he's a good bull for WA SA or northern QLD'

    IMO stop trying to make the coin at the service fee end and recognise the value at the sales ring end, especially if you want the east coast and asian buyers to have a crack.

    if you rely on local buyers then you are screwed

    RIO, SPUDLEY likes this post.

  • TheFunksterTheFunkster    3,840 posts
    Don't forget that buyers are still a bit thin on the ground due to the remaining uncertainty of the world economy. The latest growth data out of China is not very encouraging and gold and several other base metal prices have just fallen through the floor, so its probably a fair way til we're out of the woods.
    The horse breeding industry most likely feels the pinch more than most during economic downturns. Prizemoney having stagnated for several years now does nothing to help the situation.

    RIO, SPUDLEY likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    WA has hit the skids the last month or so - it's going to get worse before it gets better.
    Definitely no hope of getting better before September at the very least (election)

    RIO, SPUDLEY likes this post.

  • TheFunksterTheFunkster    3,840 posts
    And as they say "buy in gloom and sell in boom" so if you can afford to, good luck to you!

    RIO, lame likes this post.

  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    As a buyer i will be looking at the next yearling sale in WA closely, but as stated money is tight?!?!..As for others like Tivers, i am aware that buyers at your level will/should be active at the Patinack Clearance Sale..Well i hope you are.

    Good luck to anyone who ventures over, it really could be a once in a lfetime opportunity..Of course if everyone heads over then that will only drive the prices up..sort of damned if you damned damned if you dont!!
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    8,011 posts
    RIO said:

    As a buyer i will be looking at the next yearling sale in WA closely, but as stated money is tight?!?!..As for others like Tivers, i am aware that buyers at your level will/should be active at the Patinack Clearance Sale..Well i hope you are.

    Good luck to anyone who ventures over, it really could be a once in a lfetime opportunity..Of course if everyone heads over then that will only drive the prices up..sort of damned if you damned damned if you dont!!

    The next yearling sale here in Perth is the first of it's kind tried here, and I think it is a sale that will grow rapidly. Having the additional almost 5 months to prepare any yearling has to make it look more appealing. The sale itself just needs the support of the major vendors, and this first year I think a lot were still geared up for the Premier Sale.

    As a buyer I would be applying a new criteria to selections with the additional 5 months and I hope that the stock reflects this.

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    and there's more sales than just the patinack lots some nice one's yesterday and atm at inglis Australian Easter Broodmare Sale

    RIO likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    With the day we've been having today......................might not be going anywhere !!! :(
  • DaleDale    1,346 posts
    That sounds bad...........anything like mine a few weeks ago... 1 call from a vet, 1 call from the trainer saying we needed a vet and an owner who has gone bankrupt....
  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    Dale said:

    That sounds bad...........anything like mine a few weeks ago... 1 call from a vet, 1 call from the trainer saying we needed a vet and an owner who has gone bankrupt....

    WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i thought i was having a bad week..Spread all that over a week and comparitively.... i'm still travelling beautifully.

    Very tough commercial environment, as Tivers said for the rest of the year..Thank god the local government didn't change, so that hasn't created any disruption, but when the federal one does we wont see anything good happening until next year..... Cash is King ATM
  • scenic11scenic11    236 posts
    I hope some of our studs are looking at the Patinack stallions too. Might be a chance to bring one to WA.

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  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Written Tycoon just sold for $3m
    Might have been a good (and affordable) one.

    Also Oratorio (IRE) escaped to South Africa - one missed ?
    Although they probably paid plenty for him.
  • IntoItIntoIt    659 posts
    with all this talk about upgrading our breeding stocks jumped on line to watch a random lot at the broodmare sales. A jeurne mare, half to Absolutelyfabulous,dam of Griffon with a Sebring colt at foot is sold for $7500. Why even wait for the Patinak sale but how does WA compete with that.
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    WTF ????????????????????
    :(
  • IntoItIntoIt    659 posts
    But is'nt this sort of buying and selling driving down the WA product? The trend is for sellers here eg Goldfront, Mogumber etc has been to buy east and present at our yearling sales with these progeny. These mostly seem to outsell the local product.

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