Boat race we just saw

RIO · February 2013

Piston_Broke said:
I never said they aren't intelligent (too many have $$$ to be stupid) but being in a boat race is something these blokes couldn't or wouldn't be able to do, its not something u can learn in 5 minutes. Too many riders here wouldn't be silly enough to get involved, there are no secrets in Racing

Sorry about the misquote..the above is what i meant...in terms of riding only.

I see your point, but just feel it would be good to get one or two looked into - betting plunges, maybe a successful one and a failed one - and see what they went after and why..maybe the stewards have and found there is nothing in it so that is why they dismiss information given to them so out of hand...the old..here we go again ..sort of attitude.

Don't know, but certainly appears to be a problem with some events and they don't appear to be given the time of day..

thefalcon · February 2013

"have too many $$$s to be stupid".... :))
come on piston, how do $$s give brains.
maybe they have too much dosh but thats spent on flash cars, square mile tvs, blowsey chicks and designer clothes.
plus the occasional mac mansion.......how can money buy brains??

Piston_Broke · February 2013

brains keep the money

jonesee · February 2013

There are not boat races. There are races galore in the last 6 months where the pace of the race has turned out exactly to suit the way the really heavy money has gone on. ...and in these races the questions just have not been asked. At an absolute minimum the questions MUST be asked. As for the vested interests whinging about negativity on PTT, suck it up or move on... threads like this are gonna stay for as long as the stewards refuse to ask questions.

dungy · February 2013

Thumper said:
As tiresome as it may be for some the continual raising of this topic it has to be done and those doing it should be congratulated. Nobody is forced to read the threads about the boat races so if you tired of them don't read them.

I'm sure there are a stack of people on the indusrty that would love to go the media but we know that would be a death sentence the way our industry is censored in this state.

Well put Thumper i thought others might be reading DICK FRANCIS novels :)
If you dont like it dont read it pretty simple really

dungy · February 2013

Piston_Broke said:
brains keep the money

PB is spot on ,these jocks are dead set avg at best over here maybe 2 0r 3 that would cut ti on the big stage so to say they are setting up a race is hard to fathom ,these little halfwits would cock it up bigtime the one they layed would get up and beat the one they backed

dungy · February 2013

the falcon said:
"have too many $$$s to be stupid".... :))
come on piston, how do $$s give brains.
maybe they have too much dosh but thats spent on flash cars, square mile tvs, blowsey chicks and designer clothes.
plus the occasional mac mansion.......how can money buy brains??

Easy Falc ,pay smart people to do the thinking :))
so that rules out jocks

Fastmoney · February 2013

wilson said:
Well there is one positive from all this negativity. We will be able to buy at the sales cheaper cos not many would want to invest after reading this thread. For that I say Thankyou...
:D

Wilson when your racing for $50k or less in 3 to 5 yrs time, you might want to thank someone else.

Melbourne and Sydney have already jumped to $85k for a Saturday race.

Lack of punting income because of small fields (which some think isn`t an issue) has got to the stage where an urgent fix is required.

Regardless of peoples thoughts on whether races are being manipulated, the perception is that some races in Perth are suspect.

If those in charge do nothing, then the obvious response is punters no longer bet or reduce their gambling on races in Perth.

Racing integrity and field sizes have become the key to maximizing turnover, if you don`t have either, a prosperous racing environment in the future is highly unlikely.

Piston_Broke · February 2013

you have to have brains to hang onto it

tolleshunt · February 2013

Either good punting or lucky the way Roman Knows race evenuated , Worked out perfectly for him and supporters who happened to be very heavily commissioned into $3.00 when jumped, Could see that Doubtable with apprentice should lead and RK should get lovely run just behind and also needing Kalahaar to have abit of bad luck from barrier 4 , Well i'll be blowed Kalahaar gets in all sorts of trouble down the back forced back to 2nd last and left with too much to do as RK trots in... ah suspicious minds

thefalcon · February 2013

after having a flick through all the post on this thread i have come to the following conclusion.

what racing needs in wa is a new chief steward. some one along the lines of murrihy, schrek or even zucal.
but where to get that person? thats the dilemma. and what to do with the present one.

twiggy · February 2013

Hi all, I am new member here, long time lurker but new contributor so I know a lot will treat this post with contempt. I am a long time industry person, who is an owner, punter etc however I do not jump at shadows as some others do. Over the years there has been many pro punters when it's been their 'time' who have had everyone calling the cops. Bookies have also had their day in the sun. Whether it was Dominic Beinre via bowler Squ...or E Wilson or T Rhode smashing the ring...the losers sulk.
When punters have an edge, either via speedmaps, algortithyms or the old weights and measure, until everyone else catches up, the cries of rort are common place. For all those sceptics, have alook at the feature 3yr old race at Caulfield on Sat. The same so called 'rorters' backed that of the map as well. Huge flucs in a feature 3yr old race melb, 5.50 to 3.90. a helluva lot more money is required for that, than some of these perth shorteners...but no doubt they got to snowden and mcevoy etc...As a well known commentator says...pleeeeaaaassseeee...
Remember whilst they win...and dont get me wrong they are very good, they back a lot of losers as well...
my tip, work harder and you may also have those with closed minds calling you a rorter as well....
Good luck on the punt to all.

ps, remember more than half the perth ring couldn't fram a 130% market without the help of the totes and the prepost betting from the corporates,.,and the corporate price setters are ex broke bookies or bookirs clersks..FACT!..go figure who is going to win!!!

jonesee · February 2013

twiggy said:
Hi all, I am new member here, long time lurker but new contributor so I know a lot will treat this post with contempt. I am a long time industry person, who is an owner, punter etc however I do not jump at shadows as some others do. Over the years there has been many pro punters when it's been their 'time' who have had everyone calling the cops. Bookies have also had their day in the sun. Whether it was Dominic Beinre via bowler Squ...or E Wilson or T Rhode smashing the ring...the losers sulk.
When punters have an edge, either via speedmaps, algortithyms or the old weights and measure, until everyone else catches up, the cries of rort are common place. For all those sceptics, have alook at the feature 3yr old race at Caulfield on Sat. The same so called 'rorters' backed that of the map as well. Huge flucs in a feature 3yr old race melb, 5.50 to 3.90. a helluva lot more money is required for that, than some of these perth shorteners...but no doubt they got to snowden and mcevoy etc...As a well known commentator says...pleeeeaaaassseeee...
Remember whilst they win...and dont get me wrong they are very good, they back a lot of losers as well...
my tip, work harder and you may also have those with closed minds calling you a rorter as well....
Good luck on the punt to all.

ps, remember more than half the perth ring couldn't fram a 130% market without the help of the totes and the prepost betting from the corporates,.,and the corporate price setters are ex broke bookies or bookirs clersks..FACT!..go figure who is going to win!!!

Welcome Twiggy and bloody terrific first post.... Loved your ps as that is a huge problem with any decent punter trying to get on with corporates. The idiots who set most of the corporate prices have absolutely no idea and thus just ban anyone who seems to have an idea...

Do you agree that the most important thing right now to correct everyones impression on perth racing is for stewards to be at least a little more active in questioning pace in WA racing

MorganJames · February 2013

Well written twiggy everything you said in your post is 100% accurate

TheDiva · February 2013

In fact twiggy you are incorrect on one thing...the bloke leading the way on most the markets is no muppet. He's very switched on and there have been few, if any blues since he started. However, when the other corporates choose to post markets first, that's where you'll find your value.

[DeletedUser] · February 2013

twiggy said:
Hi all, I am new member here, long time lurker but new contributor so I know a lot will treat this post with contempt. I am a long time industry person, who is an owner, punter etc however I do not jump at shadows as some others do. Over the years there has been many pro punters when it's been their 'time' who have had everyone calling the cops. Bookies have also had their day in the sun. Whether it was Dominic Beinre via bowler Squ...or E Wilson or T Rhode smashing the ring...the losers sulk.
When punters have an edge, either via speedmaps, algortithyms or the old weights and measure, until everyone else catches up, the cries of rort are common place. For all those sceptics, have alook at the feature 3yr old race at Caulfield on Sat. The same so called 'rorters' backed that of the map as well. Huge flucs in a feature 3yr old race melb, 5.50 to 3.90. a helluva lot more money is required for that, than some of these perth shorteners...but no doubt they got to snowden and mcevoy etc...As a well known commentator says...pleeeeaaaassseeee...
Remember whilst they win...and dont get me wrong they are very good, they back a lot of losers as well...
my tip, work harder and you may also have those with closed minds calling you a rorter as well....
Good luck on the punt to all.

ps, remember more than half the perth ring couldn't fram a 130% market without the help of the totes and the prepost betting from the corporates,.,and the corporate price setters are ex broke bookies or bookirs clersks..FACT!..go figure who is going to win!!!

Thankyou there is a god.

thefalcon · February 2013

great post, twiggy. hope you become a regular...thankyou.

[DeletedUser] · February 2013

I do think a lot of punters have now become layers of fav's on betfair. Therefore a heavily backed fav gets up and the cry , boat, boat, boat goes out. Once upon a time most saw a horse getting smashed, they followed in.
Now we have layers screaming rort when a fav wins and they lose.
As Twiggy said, the losers sulk.

RIO · February 2013

well written twiggy..good common sense approach to the issue..there are shadows and there are good punters..in the fullness of time we will all work it out..if this issue has done nothing but encourage you to post a bit, i reckon this forum will be the better for it...

RIO · February 2013

wilson said:
I do think a lot of punters have now become layers of fav's on betfair. Therefore a heavily backed fav gets up and the cry , boat, boat, boat goes out. Once upon a time most saw a horse getting smashed, they followed in.
Now we have layers screaming rort when a fav wins and they lose.
As Twiggy said, the losers sulk.

after settling things down with a good, well written analogy of the situation are you going to start stoking the fire to get a reaction???? let it go and keep the thread on an intelligent level..no right and wrong , just opinions, and suggestions, to help everyone see as many different aspects to the current situation as possible. :-??

[DeletedUser] · February 2013

And that's my opinion.

RIO · February 2013

wilson said:

As Twiggy said, the losers sulk.

yes it is your opinion, with a good dig at those who have a different one..Twiggy's post was his well balanced statement....

[DeletedUser] · February 2013

Yes I agree, Twiggy's post was the best in a long time. Spot on.

SuburbanPunk · February 2013

Row row row your boat gently down the stream
throw your teacher overboard and listen to her scream

Belt off, trousers down. Isn't life a scream

I love nursery rhymes. Don't you Mummy

The wicked witch from the East hovers overhead

Alas, the golden unicorn sees no childish antics

What is everyone saying Mr Wolf

I have my favourites. They are wonderful little friends who do all the work.

The garden is always neat and tidy.

Take me back to the man who controls everything.

He will spread the gold to all the puppets

Don't tell anyone and no one will see.

Mummy, when I wake up can I watch the soccer.

I promise I won't talk to the naughty man

[DeletedUser] · February 2013

:)) :)) :)) Big fella.

SuburbanPunk · February 2013

Evening Mr Wilson.

Vampi Lass went well.

Radman · February 2013

SuburbanPunk said:
Row row row your boat gently down the stream
throw your teacher overboard and listen to her scream

Belt off, trousers down. Isn't life a scream

I love nursery rhymes. Don't you Mummy

The wicked witch from the East hovers overhead

Alas, the golden unicorn sees no childish antics

What is everyone saying Mr Wolf

I have my favourites. They are wonderful little friends who do all the work.

The garden is always neat and tidy.

Take me back to the man who controls everything.

He will spread the gold to all the puppets

Don't tell anyone and no one will see.

Mummy, when I wake up and watch the soccer.

I promise I won't talk to the naughty man

I want what he's having.

dungy · February 2013

SuburbanPunk said:
Row row row your boat gently down the stream
throw your teacher overboard and listen to her scream

Belt off, trousers down. Isn't life a scream

I love nursery rhymes. Don't you Mummy

The wicked witch from the East hovers overhead

Alas, the golden unicorn sees no childish antics

What is everyone saying Mr Wolf

I have my favourites. They are wonderful little friends who do all the work.

The garden is always neat and tidy.

Take me back to the man who controls everything.

He will spread the gold to all the puppets

Don't tell anyone and no one will see.

Mummy, when I wake up and watch the soccer.

I promise I won't talk to the naughty man

The Big man sounds like he has been indulging :))

Rodent · February 2013

twiggy said:

When punters have an edge, either via speedmaps, algortithyms or the old weights and measure, until everyone else catches up, the cries of rort are common place.
Remember whilst they win...and dont get me wrong they are very good, they back a lot of losers as well...
my tip, work harder and you may also have those with closed minds calling you a rorter as well....
Good luck on the punt to all.

ps, remember more than half the perth ring couldn't fram a 130% market without the help of the totes and the prepost betting from the corporates,.,and the corporate price setters are ex broke bookies or bookirs clersks..FACT!..go figure who is going to win!!!

When punters have an edge due to hard work or innovation, good luck to them. Well done I say. When a punter has an unfair advantage it is a different story. Smart people will always identify enough winners to make a quid but don't forget we are always dealing in probabilities not certainties. The dead giveaway is when a race is ALWAYS run to suit the heavily commissioned runner. How could a speed map tell you Times Are Changing would be restrained to wide and midfield in a race run at over 37 seconds for the first 600m? How could a speed map tell you Costa Brom would go berserk in front? With Dashing Dan on board there was a chance of course but the way Dash For Home was backed from barrier 16 suggested it wasn't a chance but a formality. How could one conclude that considering in its 11 lifetime starts in inferior company it had never led?
We all know at least some trainers have punters. What if enough trainers had the same punter? Is this illegal? What if said punter had enough fingers in enough pies that he was getting riding instructions ahead of time as well as information on how each horse was expected to run? Lethal combination for sure. Personally, I have made decent money betting on WA gallops for over a decade with zero information. If I were privy to how a race would definitely be run as opposed to how based on form it was likely to be run, I could bet a lot bigger with a lot more confidence.
This is the crux of the matter. Punter confidence. Punters are increasingly suspicious that there are people out there with a patently unfair advantage. If an owner or trainer punts one of their own, good luck to them. What is clearly not acceptable is when there is collaboration in a race. Trainers may not be collaborating directly but there is the stench of a middleman, a puppeteer of sorts.
What other explanation could there be for races panning out to suit the punted horse each and every time? Please don't give me the speed map crap. Who would have had Times Are Changing going back in Texan's race?

twiggy · February 2013

Hi Diva

Aside from the obvious spelling mistakes it caused, the red wine consumed yesterday may have made my comments re price assessors seem a little caustic. That wasn't meant to be the case. I was just highlighting that the tab's literally set 100's of fixed odds markets a week (which is an incredibly difficult task) and those markets then set the basis for where the betting starts and betfair dictates where the markets finish.

Rodent, you make some valid points and I don't for one minute believe that Perth racing is completely clean (it never has and likely never will) and agree for the industry to prosper confidence is paramaount. I also believe stewards across the country, not just WA, need to be doing more i.e. at least asking more questions. I think the lack of investigations etc boils down to steward panels being underesourced given the plethora of meetings that are now run across Australia every day of the week.
My point is whilst there maybe a smelly race here or there to be investigated, I think the paranoia about Perth racing being fixed on a weekly basis lacks substance and the more it is hyped the more shadows people seem to want to jump at.

G'day Punter!

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