In this Discussion
- annandale January 2013
- Dale January 2013
- goose January 2013
- HenleyBrook January 2013
- REDONE January 2013
- scenic11 January 2013
- SPUDLEY January 2013
- TheDiva January 2013
- TheFunkster January 2013
- Tivers January 2013
- wedge January 2013
- whereamigoingwrong January 2013
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big clean up
Breeding
just had a quick look through the latest studbook stats for the last serving season,
obviously didnt have time to scroll thru all of them but just gives the indication that there may be quite a few that have been well supported over the last 5 or so years that may well have their last season standing 2012.
combine this with the latest change at the MM helm locally, you would suggest that there may be some sort of standard that has been applied by the auction house to install some investor confidence, can only be a good thing moving forward
stallion and number of mares
due sasso 3
danehill express 16
balmont 6
so secret 17
viscount 21
ihtiram 4
proart 11
husson lightning 34
saxon 47
hala bek 45
universal ruler 28
rogano 45
de troy 1
heritage 16
passenger 38
key business 16
flying pegasus 33
lords a leaping 2
he's a decoy 30
mcflirt 12
my atacanta 27
demerit 72
natural blitz 25
obviously didnt have time to scroll thru all of them but just gives the indication that there may be quite a few that have been well supported over the last 5 or so years that may well have their last season standing 2012.
combine this with the latest change at the MM helm locally, you would suggest that there may be some sort of standard that has been applied by the auction house to install some investor confidence, can only be a good thing moving forward
stallion and number of mares
due sasso 3
danehill express 16
balmont 6
so secret 17
viscount 21
ihtiram 4
proart 11
husson lightning 34
saxon 47
hala bek 45
universal ruler 28
rogano 45
de troy 1
heritage 16
passenger 38
key business 16
flying pegasus 33
lords a leaping 2
he's a decoy 30
mcflirt 12
my atacanta 27
demerit 72
natural blitz 25
Comments
Numbers like this are depressing......i cant see how due sasso has 3, i will wait for the final list, usually posted by mr Wyer...
vital equine 33
not really depressing dale, just very realistic. what s this final list? i have taken the numbers off the official australian stud book website
not enough prize money going around to support the asking prices considering the performance of some of these
have a look at the upcoming MM sale catalogue and see how many of these stallions are supported in the sale
looks like the auction house drew a line in the sand and suggested that they will not be accepting average quality (from a local sense) in the sales moving forward. if the MM wont accept due sasso horses in the upcoming sales, then they will not put any mares to him as he is commercially not viable.
can see how the hobby breeders have been squeezed out of the game...
We failed to get a bid two years in a row. First year leased out what turned out to be Tempestuous Strike, now sold to the lessors.
Second year failed to get a bid for the half sister (who looked better). Sold privately.
This year didnt even put the half brother in the sales. will either race ourselves or sell privately.
Maybe there has been a flight to quality?
Broodmare owners will also give the new kids on the block a go, eg Dick Turpin
Blackfriars 174
Scandal Keeper 159
Dick Turpin 88
Henny Hughes 84
Oratorio 82
Alfred Nobel 61
Trade Fair 59
Scandal keeper got 159 but between Ronnie and Eddie im sure they would account for the majority
i quickly brushed through a few 1st/ 2nd season stallions and a few battlers to see how they are fairing. the stallions you quoted are still fully supported by the studs that stand them, or are still having a commercial go at them so no real relevance.
just out of interest scenic11, can you please define what a flight to 'quality' is? dick turpin? henny hughes? alfred nobel? trade fair?
hmmmm....
pretty average here in WA, some people have had their way for too long. a healthy breeding industry s one with a diversified ownership base, pedigree qualityand diversity, choice and affordability related to prizemoney on offer.
It is the natural progression that stallions will come and go.
Some will succeed and others won't.
No big deal really. Happens everywhere.
for example: mosayter, can throw a better than average horse as we have just recently discovered.
he served around 200 mares over 8 seasons has 170 foals on ground.
not many in comparison to scandal keepers first big season? 159......
lets say mosayter is purchased by one of the big local studs in those 8 seasons he would have had 100 mares per season. the chances are you have a great local success.
is it fair to say that mosayter never had a chance because it was in the wrong camp? or was he just not good enough? same goes for helenus who can throw a good stayer by the looks and kendel star, never gets the opportunity to shine.... maybe not a top liner but never really gets a shot to be one.
somehow i do not think that this is an example of natural progression
i concur.... it happens everywhere
Some breeds require more patience/time.
oratorio.. cant remember his last 2yo winner, throws average confirmation and his best is out of a zabeel mare and cant get a mile... thats pretty unidimensional IMO
i keep hearing this stuff thrown up all the time, yes we like early goers and sprinters but our most popular stallion won a vrc derby over 2500m and cant get an early one....
coz if your looking for early and sprinting you are in the wrong state atm
time to be realistic
He like Alfred Nobel and Planet Five are 2nd season stallions.
All of which have had enough numbers in the last 2 years to be given a commercially viable opportunity.
These stallions progeny are only foals.
So probably a little harsh to add to your clean up list.
Are you suggesting Demerit(and the afformentioned 2nd season stallions) do not have the pedgree quality and diversity
needed in WA?
"i quickly brushed through a few 1st/ 2nd season stallions and a few battlers to see how they are fairing. the stallions you quoted are still fully supported by the studs that stand them, or are still having a commercial go at them so no real relevance."
you are right, we cannot assess what hasnt hit the track! lets hope "the system" allows these stallions to become commercial
great to see someone stand a bull that moves away from danzig line.... such as demerit, so i am not questioning the calibre of demerits peigree, although i am not a fan of lonhro myself. (thats the subjective beauty of breeding i guess)
the list posted wasnt a clean up list, simply a few stats that show there is a reality check for some bigger players
And the numbers are depressing to me, i had a crack at bringing a stallion or two into the state and got smashed. There were quite a few outside factors to this but the numbers were the same. If i owned a few of the stallions mentioned above i would be DEPRESSED
due sasso 3 - astounded at that number
danehill express 16 - likewise
balmont 6
so secret 17 - very good number for a 4th covering season (local) sire, ie First runners yet / about to appear
viscount 21 - I think is probably a fair number. Has been reasonably successful as a sire, but imo only suits export market (don't perform locally)
ihtiram 4
proart 11
husson lightning 34 - still a good number with limited results to date
saxon 47 - same as HL
hala bek 45 - very good number for a 3rd covering season sire, following on from 48 and 39 previous seasons.
universal ruler 28 - very good number for a 3rd covering season (local) sire, ie First runners yet / about to appear
rogano 45 - massive number imo
de troy 1
heritage 16 - reasonable support for limited results
passenger 38 - likewise
key business 16
flying pegasus 33 - probably just finding his level
lords a leaping 2
he's a decoy 30 - actually his biggest season to date
mcflirt 12
my atacanta 27 - very good number for a 3rd covering season (local) sire, ie First runners yet / about to appear
demerit 72 - 72 is a concern ??????
natural blitz 25 - Very good number off minimal results......
hey tivers, i dont wish to be taken out of context,
the list refers to a few battlers that i think have seen their best days (as commercial stallions) as well as the 1st and 2nd season stallions that i happened to have a look at at the time
this is from one of my earlier posts:
"i quickly brushed through a few 1st/ 2nd season stallions and a few battlers to see how they are fairing. the stallions you quoted are still fully supported by the studs that stand them, or are still having a commercial go at them so no real relevance."
the title 'big clean up' in hindsight is misleading. it should be more appropriately titled, apologies
really looking forward to see some of these newcomers hit the track later this year!
with regards to your comments on husson lightning tivers, when do you think a stud like heytsbury recognise that he may not be doing the job for their mares? below 20 mares?... i guess you have to draw the line at some stage... in this case i doubt i would consider him a commercially viable option for a stud this size.
to be fair, i think the watba or mm should set a standard of criteria for stallions: pedigree, racetrack performance, and a realistic assessment of the chances of them being able to attract a buyer to the sales is where i would start.
sorry if i offend but i cannot see too many travelling from over east or overseas jumping over the top of each other to buy a husson lightning.
as you guys know there are only so many mares in this state available for breeding, better give those stallions that have the criteria a good go rather than spread it over average bulls that will struggle from now on.
Could well be a bonanza for sellers come that yearling sale with the shortage of stock......
So in my case I plead guilty as my old girl Let's Be Honest was unplaced but kept getting told she had ability so gave it a crack and whalah 6 to race for 6 winners not all city winners but a winners a winner anywhere.
Every home bred winner of ours has come out of an unraced, unplaced or non winning mare.
Haven't had a race winning mare throw a winner yet......
My target mares now are unraced or lightly raced, well bred mares. Seem to get the best results.