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War Chant

Breeding
TheTenthTenorTheTenthTenor    58 posts
edited November -1 Breeding
My mate has had quite solid results from his broodmare with most so far resulting in either city or country winners.
He is considering sending her to War Chant this year.
What are your thoughts on this sire/
Is he worth the money?

I dont know much about him any and all comments appreciated.
+1 -1

Comments

  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    Results thus far would suggest Scandal Keeper instead?
    +1 -1
  • TheFunksterTheFunkster    3,840 posts
    said:

    Results thus far would suggest Scandal Keeper instead?

    Agree. Plenty of cheaper ones (well actually they all are) I would go to before WC. But depends on the breeding of the mare.
    Obviously a bit difficult to send a Danehill Dancer mare to Alfred Nobel (by DD).
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  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,949 posts
    If he is breeding to race, then the commercial prospects of a Stallion of little consequence. Which I'm guessing that by asking about War Chant, and him being the equal highest priced Stallion in the State, he is thinking of breeding for the ring. Otherwise your question needs to have with it the breeding of the mare in question. You would have to be dead unlucky for the best possible breeding prospect to also be the highest priced Stallion for a couple of thousand km's.
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  • TheTenthTenorTheTenthTenor    58 posts
    No he is breeding with a view to racing. As i said he has had sucess with the mare using a few different stallions - and was thinking that it may be worth the extra money to see what she could produce if crossed with one of the better (more expensive) stallions available.

    You never know unless you try... right?
    +1 -1
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,949 posts
    said:

    No he is breeding with a view to racing. As i said he has had sucess with the mare using a few different stallions - and was thinking that it may be worth the extra money to see what she could produce if crossed with one of the better (more expensive) stallions available.

    You never know unless you try... right?

    If you are breeding to race, money is the last consideration you should have in choosing a Stallion. You should try and pick a Stallion that will upgrade your mare in areas like race performance, pedigree, conformation etc. His price tag has nothing to do with genetics at all.
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Yep
    Isn't who I would go to to breed to race.
    +1 -1
  • TheTenthTenorTheTenthTenor    58 posts
    quite suprised with the response!
    How can a horse like this justify his service fee then? what does he offer?
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  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,949 posts
    said:

    quite suprised with the response!
    How can a horse like this justify his service fee then? what does he offer?

    Oratorio has just been dropped to $22,000 incl GST perhaps for that same reason, justifying his fee. In the case of War Chant, his shuttlers have saved a fortune by importing a proven Sire to WA, and in not having to transport their huge numbers of mares around the East Coast of Australia they are saving considerable amounts. Against this backdrop they have decided to set his fee at $22,000 and whether the market agree's or not is a case for individual breeders to decide.

    One thing for sure in breeding, you can't make people take the deal, they ultimately have to decide for themselves if it is the right mating or not and if the price tag is agreeable.
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    said:

    quite suprised with the response!
    How can a horse like this justify his service fee then? what does he offer?

    Depends on the mare
    If she's a Group One winner, and you're adamant on covering her in WA - then you're looking at exactly the right stallion yes.

    Care to shed some light on who, or at least what the mare is, and you can get more helpful answers.
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  • BagsBags    4 posts
    I bought idyllic princess at the recent mm sale, she is sired by blackfriers out of uma princess ( dam of iDyllic prince) currently covered by universal ruler, where would you be sending her for the up coming season??
    +1 -1
  • whereamigoingwrongwhereamigoingwrong    260 posts
    said:

    said:

    quite suprised with the response!
    How can a horse like this justify his service fee then? what does he offer?

    Depends on the mare
    If she's a Group One winner, and you're adamant on covering her in WA - then you're looking at exactly the right stallion yes.

    Care to shed some light on who, or at least what the mare is, and you can get more helpful answers.
    kev I think Tenth is on a fishing exercise
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  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,949 posts
    said:

    I bought idyllic princess at the recent mm sale, she is sired by blackfriers out of uma princess ( dam of iDyllic prince) currently covered by universal ruler, where would you be sending her for the up coming season??

    The current mating your mare is carrying scores quite highly on the G1 rating system with a 31,22,22 point score where above 18 is good and 20 or more is very good. So to top out with a 31 is an amazing result. To name just two horses bred along similar bloodlines previously would be Frankel & Tuesday Joy.

    However you may wish to also consider Famous Roman being a 3 x 3 cross to Danehill. This has previously produced the likes of Blackfriars, Redoute?s Choice, and Platinum Scissors. The scores for this match are exceptional at 31,31,31,22,22,22. The only caution I would say is that some breeders believe that a three by three cross to Danehill can exacerbate some back at the knee issues.

    Danehill Express at Mungrup Stud would give you identical scores to Famous Roman but the cross is two by three, and wouldn't be my first choice.

    Going to Discorsi at Yarradale gives you a cross to Miswaki and Northern Dancer and the G1 scores are remarkable at 11 straight 22's ! Previously this cross has created Star Witness, Teofilo, and Frankel as Group 1 winning 2YO's. This would easily be my number one choice. I think he will do OK in the sales ring as well, certainly he is from a known seller who gets lots into the main sale each year, so this helps greatly. It is also the choice of Resetgold after picking up black type in last Saturday's Matchmaker Classic at Ascot.

    If you would like further advice, and considering I don't know things like how your mare is in size and what she may have been like as a type, the above could be further clarified by a couple of extra questions. Being by Blackfriars you would have expected her to be perhaps a 3YO filly or later, but with the influence of Discorsi who was a black type 2YO and from a family of 2YO types, at first look I think you would be hard pressed to get a better match than this locally.

    Like I said, I'm happy to assist if you want to use a Bloodstock Agent, just PM for more details.
    +1 -1
  • Unknown
    If you are using a Bloodstock Agent make sure they are licensed and of worthy repuation

    http://www.bloodstockagents.com.au/index.html
    +1 -1
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,949 posts
    said:

    If you are using a Bloodstock Agent make sure they are licensed and of worthy repuation

    http://www.bloodstockagents.com.au/index.html

    Paying a $2,000 fee to join an association doesn't ensure that. That only ensures that sanctions can be taken against that person because they have agreed to a code of conduct.

    It does not however ensure a level of guarantee that the advice or selections by that agent are in fact any better than an agent who has elected not to join such a small association.

    In making this comment you only demonstrate your lack of credibility in this Industry in a veiled attempt at trying to cast doubt on my integrity. After all, I have given this, what seems like a new broodmare owner, genuine advice that has not been tainted by any bias towards any of the Stallions mentioned.

    My continued and growing database of clients would refute the inference you make in such a comment.
    +1 -1
  • meatpiemeatpie    595 posts
    said:

    I bought idyllic princess at the recent mm sale, she is sired by blackfriers out of uma princess ( dam of iDyllic prince) currently covered by universal ruler, where would you be sending her for the up coming season??

    good win yesterday.

    My advice would be not to rush to an early decision.

    Very few stallions in WA have full books and few studs if any wont negotiate thei service fee. Be patient.
    +1 -1
  • TheTenthTenorTheTenthTenor    58 posts
    kev I think Tenth is on a fishing exercise

    Yes i am on a fishing exercise so that i can provide some info to a friend and learn a little more about the game.



    ___ great pick up on idyllic princess - i hope you have many successes and a great time along the way!
    +1 -1
  • TheTenthTenorTheTenthTenor    58 posts
    oh and the mare is the mother of louisiana lady.
    Thanks for the help.
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Half to Fleming Son.
    Winner in her own right.
    Worthy of a decent cover :)

    P.s. TTT - Check your PM's again
    +1 -1
  • TheTenthTenorTheTenthTenor    58 posts
    Fleming son is back in work - hoping for a successful campaign.
    He is a bloody good looking horse!
    +1 -1
  • Unknown
    said:

    said:

    If you are using a Bloodstock Agent make sure they are licensed and of worthy repuation

    http://www.bloodstockagents.com.au/index.html

    Paying a $2,000 fee to join an association doesn't ensure that. That only ensures that sanctions can be taken against that person because they have agreed to a code of conduct.

    It does not however ensure a level of guarantee that the advice or selections by that agent are in fact any better than an agent who has elected not to join such a small association.

    In making this comment you only demonstrate your lack of credibility in this Industry in a veiled attempt at trying to cast doubt on my integrity. After all, I have given this, what seems like a new broodmare owner, genuine advice that has not been tainted by any bias towards any of the Stallions mentioned.

    My continued and growing database of clients would refute the inference you make in such a comment.
    :P :P :P :P

    I doubt any self respecting bloodstock agent would feel the need to write such comments
    +1 -1
  • IntoItIntoIt    659 posts
    Try this site for an unbiased answer to your dilemma.
    www.thethoroughbredreview.com/TopTenMistakesracing.htmalue
    Ia an american site but gives timeless and universal advice
    Touts Lonhro as a good value $30k stud fee sire for the american season.
    +1 -1
  • HenleyBrookHenleyBrook    408 posts
    War Chants record speaks for itself. $22k is fair.

    Ron won't drop the service fee either.

    In my opinion the best value stallions are Heritage, Kendel Star and Scandal Keeper.
    +1 -1
  • BagsBags    4 posts
    Thanks very much Damian for the effort put into your reply, much appreciated


    said:

    said:

    I bought idyllic princess at the recent mm sale, she is sired by blackfriers out of uma princess ( dam of iDyllic prince) currently covered by universal ruler, where would you be sending her for the up coming season??

    The current mating your mare is carrying scores quite highly on the G1 rating system with a 31,22,22 point score where above 18 is good and 20 or more is very good. So to top out with a 31 is an amazing result. To name just two horses bred along similar bloodlines previously would be Frankel & Tuesday Joy.

    However you may wish to also consider Famous Roman being a 3 x 3 cross to Danehill. This has previously produced the likes of Blackfriars, Redoute?s Choice, and Platinum Scissors. The scores for this match are exceptional at 31,31,31,22,22,22. The only caution I would say is that some breeders believe that a three by three cross to Danehill can exacerbate some back at the knee issues.

    Danehill Express at Mungrup Stud would give you identical scores to Famous Roman but the cross is two by three, and wouldn't be my first choice.

    Going to Discorsi at Yarradale gives you a cross to Miswaki and Northern Dancer and the G1 scores are remarkable at 11 straight 22's ! Previously this cross has created Star Witness, Teofilo, and Frankel as Group 1 winning 2YO's. This would easily be my number one choice. I think he will do OK in the sales ring as well, certainly he is from a known seller who gets lots into the main sale each year, so this helps greatly. It is also the choice of Resetgold after picking up black type in last Saturday's Matchmaker Classic at Ascot.

    If you would like further advice, and considering I don't know things like how your mare is in size and what she may have been like as a type, the above could be further clarified by a couple of extra questions. Being by Blackfriars you would have expected her to be perhaps a 3YO filly or later, but with the influence of Discorsi who was a black type 2YO and from a family of 2YO types, at first look I think you would be hard pressed to get a better match than this locally.

    Like I said, I'm happy to assist if you want to use a Bloodstock Agent, just PM for more details.
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    "It is interesting to note that War Chant is the most successful sire of colts and geldings standing in Aust (in terms of average winnings per runner - the ultimate test).
    War Chant is the sire of 248 colts/geldings that have raced for average earnings of A$113,554 per runner.
    This is compared to Commands 447 for $111,749; Redoute's Choice 464 for $109,514; Fastnet Rock 262 for $90,432; More Than Ready 713 for $83,348; Exceed and Excel 448 for $68,155 and WA's leading sires Blackfriars 189 for $69,893 and Oratorio 88 for $44,051.
    War Chant is priced at $15k (which was the price he was dealt on last season)."
    +1 -1
  • TheodorTheodor    199 posts
    The Tenth Tenor, I hope the facts in the previous post helps you. I am completely conflicted as I own part of the sh rights to WC. But. Facts don't lie. All up WC has 65% winners to runners and about $83k prize money to runner. He is the best stallion ever to stand in WA statistically. This cannot be argued against. Yep he is getting older but little else to attack. His best progeny win on grass.
    +1 -1
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,949 posts
    Theodor said:

    The Tenth Tenor, I hope the facts in the previous post helps you. I am completely conflicted as I own part of the sh rights to WC. But. Facts don't lie. All up WC has 65% winners to runners and about $83k prize money to runner. He is the best stallion ever to stand in WA statistically. This cannot be argued against. Yep he is getting older but little else to attack. His best progeny win on grass.

    Will be very interesting to see his progeny offered go through the MM sales ring here in Perth. According to some, this State is in dire consequences as far as breeding goes. Our Premier Sale is fast approaching maybe only 300 lots across two days.

    +1 -1
  • TheodorTheodor    199 posts
    Yep, easy to be negative. We will be taking half a dozen colts of War Chant to Gold Coast. Been a while since WA bred hotses

    TheFunkster likes this post.

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  • TheodorTheodor    199 posts
    Typo issues. Carrying on from last post. It has been a long time since WA bred and based yearlings have been offered in premier eastern states sales. War Chant's yearlings are sufficiently sort after to justify selling them at the GC.
    The great thing about negativity is that changes result. We will get better stallions and importantly, substandard mares will be culled
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  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,949 posts
    Not a case of being negative Eddie. The crop offered this year were not up to the markets expectations. As a result Magic Millions are looking for ways to improve this situation.

    If you really want to improve the lot of WA Breeders, how about their member organisation going to find some buyers that other sales can attract in droves.

    So why take War Chant yearlings to the GC ? How about supporting this State's sale ? If your Stallion is dropping them to the ground that good, then why not attract buyers to this State and the entire Industry will benefit from that ?

    coastalchill likes this post.

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  • TheodorTheodor    199 posts
    Hearing you Damien. Ronny and I have some 20 War Chant colts and a similar number of fillies. There is no way one sale could handle such a concentration of yearlings from one sire from two closely connected breeders. You would agree on that. So we need to sell some in other sales, perhaps keep a couple of fillies from old mares, and sell/lease some thru Yarradales sale.

    TheFunkster likes this post.

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