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BrooksyBrooksy    70 posts
edited November -1 West Australian Racing
Ok so obviously we get the mon/wed/fri editions of tab form here in perth.
The friday one is fairly decent for the eastern states races but i find midweek is basically a waste of paper or maybe i dont know how to read the info properly.

What do all you guys on here use make your selections for WA races but more so for midweeks over east?
Any prints i dont know of or online sources?

Cheers
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Comments

  • VorgtrafficVorgtraffic    1,755 posts
    I use two form guides for all my form

    1. http://www.racingandsports.com.au/form-guide/ because it gives so much information and is easy to use. I use this to study the form

    2. http://puntersparadise.com.au/form-guide/ for the speed maps it offers. It really helps me visualise how the race will be run.

    Both have formguides for every meeting(in aus) during the week.
    +1 -1
  • BrooksyBrooksy    70 posts
    Great cheers Vorg.
    I'll check those out soon :)
    +1 -1
  • BrooksyBrooksy    70 posts
    Anyone else use something different?
    You can never have too much info
    +1 -1
  • littleboybluelittleboyblue    454 posts
    way2bet

    or centrebet formguide
    +1 -1
  • Unknown
    I use southcoast database http://www.southcoastdatabase.com/
    +1 -1
  • BrooksyBrooksy    70 posts
    Thanks guys i'll give em all a go tomorrow :)

    way2bet? i typed that in and it just came up with sportingbets home page??

    Keep em all coming even you guys might find a new avenue to make a profit..
    +1 -1
  • PunterPunter    947 posts
    www.way2bet.com.au
    +1 -1
  • PunterPunter    947 posts
    Are there any web sites that gives tips?
    +1 -1
  • CarlosaCarlosa    1,287 posts
    said:

    Are there any web sites that gives tips?

    Yep - perthturftalk.com

    How much you got to lose?
    +1 -1
  • PunterPunter    947 posts
    Alot.
    +1 -1
  • ravenraven    13 posts
    If you want something different:

    www.perthturf.com.au

    Just register and each Friday you get an email to this guy's speed ratings for the Saturday meeting. All free for the time being. Good if you like to make your own picks & are into time ratings.
    +1 -1
  • PunterPunter    947 posts
    Looks like a scam. Marketing tool.
    +1 -1
  • ravenraven    13 posts
    said:

    Looks like a scam. Marketing tool.

    Oh I'm sure its just some sort of marketing ploy, obviously he wants to sell this info. But all i can say is I have received the pdf of his form guide the last 3 saturdays and there has been no hard sell. It may interest some people, all you have to provide is a valid email.
    +1 -1
  • aaronaprilaaronapril    25 posts
    Hi Punter,

    My name is Aaron and I am responsible for the perthturf site.

    I can assure you it is no scam. I have a small handful of people who have subscribed to my data and at this stage there are no plans to start charging for it.

    I asked a friend of mine who runs a web design/marketing/PR type business to design the site for me and that is what he can back to me with, so I apologise if it seems a bit 'scammy'.

    The plan was to put lots of my own articles up there and one day hopefully make a bit of pocket money from it with some ads or something, but family and work have sadly got in the way.

    I never mentioned it on PTT before because, frankly, most punters think speed ratings are a crock... But it's how I bet and I love making my figures. Also, If the speed ratings were especially effective, I wouldn't be sharing them with anybody. But they are a useful additional tool.

    More than anything else really, I wanted some subscribers to share the data with and maybe I could in turn learn something from them. The whole 'fresh set of eyes' thing.
    +1 -1
  • rot8inrot8in    1,881 posts
    said:


    2. http://puntersparadise.com.au/form-guide/ for the speed maps it offers. It really helps me visualise how the race will be run.

    thanks vorg..and its free :lol: :lol:
    +1 -1
  • Unknown
    the punters paradise speed maps are computer generated and as such can be largely inaccurate at times
    +1 -1
  • VorgtrafficVorgtraffic    1,755 posts
    That is true della, however it gives you a good accurate picture of their early gate speed, from this and your own insight, you can usually develop accurate speed maps.

    I've had a lot of success with it at least.
    +1 -1
  • ravenraven    13 posts
    said:

    I use southcoast database http://www.southcoastdatabase.com/

    Hi BC, I looked into Southcoast. While I love the idea of having a desktop database, they ask for 3000 per year, plus an initial 1100 for back data & another 700 for the upgrade. Big initial outlay for me. And do the ratings take field strength or quality into consideration? Or are they straight out race class ratings?

    Hi Aaron, I think you need to consider pace in your database. I like to grade a pace by comparing the speed of the early pace (time minus the last 600m) to the speed of the final 600m. I then assign a pace effect between Very Very Fast and Very Very Slow. Can help make sense of the final time.

    My favourite horses to lay are horses that run well & were advantaged by a VVF or VF pace effect.
    +1 -1
  • Unknown
    I use the data as a starting point - well worth it imo
    +1 -1
  • lordwaterlordwater    1,127 posts
    Puntersparadise free form guide is well laid out. I like where in the field page the name of the JOCKEY is below HORSE name and name of TRAINER is on end of line. IF you have favourite TRAINER/trainers you can quickly read and look for them , going down page. As being computer generated and not like LIVE TIPPERS , is that live tippers may be in on the KNOW now and then. NAH I have no connection in regards to puntersparadise , but nice try if anyone thought I had. 8)
    +1 -1
  • aaronaprilaaronapril    25 posts
    said:


    Hi Aaron, I think you need to consider pace in your database. I like to grade a pace by comparing the speed of the early pace (time minus the last 600m) to the speed of the final 600m. I then assign a pace effect between Very Very Fast and Very Very Slow. Can help make sense of the final time.

    Hey Raven, I've been fiddling with something like that where you can directly compare early and late 'energy' use, where the last 600m split is weighted the same as the first part of the race up to that point. Is that the sort of thing you mean? I thought it would be useful to pinpoint run-on horses who actually performed well despite a low overall speed rating, but I can see that it would be a very effective laying tool as well.

    As for the topic of this thread, I can't go past racenet's guides. All that information for free is great!
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    said:


    Hi Aaron, I think you need to consider pace in your database. I like to grade a pace by comparing the speed of the early pace (time minus the last 600m) to the speed of the final 600m. I then assign a pace effect between Very Very Fast and Very Very Slow. Can help make sense of the final time.

    Hey Raven, I've been fiddling with something like that where you can directly compare early and late 'energy' use, where the last 600m split is weighted the same as the first part of the race up to that point. Is that the sort of thing you mean? I thought it would be useful to pinpoint run-on horses who actually performed well despite a low overall speed rating, but I can see that it would be a very effective laying tool as well.

    As for the topic of this thread, I can't go past racenet's guides. All that information for free is great!
    can't comment on formguides as i don't use any.
    but can you explain the bit in red above thanks?
    i'm never too old to want to learn from others!
    it just sounds interesting
    +1 -1
  • DarkDark    909 posts
    At a guess i'd suggest the idea is, rather than having 1 speedrating the horse get 2 speedratings, one for the "first" part of the race (however long that is) and one for the "last" part of the race (600m).

    The theory is to give horses a speedrating that can be adjusted for pace.

    I certainly wouldnt suggest weighting each of them the same however.
    +1 -1
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    too much info boys...too much info!! :lol:
    clouds the issue...nothing beats a tab form, a good stewards report, video of races and your own judgement.
    one of the best punters on track, who i have known for years relies on that and that only.
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    too much info boys...too much info!! :lol:
    clouds the issue...nothing beats a tab form, a good stewards report, video of races and your own judgement.
    one of the best punters on track, who i have known for years relies on that and that only.


    yes but you don't know who really makes all the money, nor how much, nor how?
    ....gone!.....
    you can never have too much info, the problem is simply how to use everything you can get, and to forever keep looking for more, because there is always somebody snapping at your heels.
    +1 -1
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    sorry, carey i don't agree. we are becoming too reliant on all this scientific nonsense.
    don't forget it is all a humans compilation and gleaned from basic information that we are all privvy to.
    i've been going to the races since i was about 10, no videos in those days but relied on restricted form guides and STEWARDS REPORTS, and of course very knowledgeable track watchers.

    i also more than dabble on stocks. same thing, i don't pour over financial graphs, pies and all that guff. go to seminars...oh yeah!! :lol:
    i track the stocks and read company announcements, in brief from their web pages.
    those glossy company reports...bin them or in these enlightened times opt not to receive them or push the delete button.
    maybe i am unique!! :shock: :lol: :P
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    sorry, carey i don't agree. we are becoming too reliant on all this scientific nonsense.
    don't forget it is all a humans compilation and gleaned from basic information that we are all privvy to.
    i've been going to the races since i was about 10, no videos in those days but relied on restricted form guides and STEWARDS REPORTS, and of course very knowledgeable track watchers.

    i also more than dabble on stocks. same thing, i don't pour over financial graphs, pies and all that guff. go to seminars...oh yeah!! :lol:
    i track the stocks and read company announcements, in brief from their web pages.
    those glossy company reports...bin them or in these enlightened times opt not to receive them or push the delete button.
    maybe i am unique!! :shock: :lol: :P

    the guy whose i name i originally posted but then thought better of, would be
    worth much much more than 100 million, and it came from???
    and he once worked for a guy that was worth much much more than the oft talked about 600 million(when he died), before branching out on his own

    anyway,if you read it, google his name, and all you will see is he bought an apartment in sydney for 8million plus a few years back.
    now i have a good idea of how he makes his money and the detail of it.
    more is better, believe me........
    your mate may be big by long gone standards, but it's more like multi national companies these days, and their turnover is only limited by pool sizes, and the number of countries that have racing, nothing else.

    stockmarket i can't comment on, as it's double dutch to me, but racing is, well, it just is.
    +1 -1
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    yeah i read about the guy...foreign name, lived in tasmania.
    has disappeared o/seas since the tax office was sniffing around.
    that guy IS unique..must have a mind like a computer.
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    At a guess i'd suggest the idea is, rather than having 1 speedrating the horse get 2 speedratings, one for the "first" part of the race (however long that is) and one for the "last" part of the race (600m).

    The theory is to give horses a speedrating that can be adjusted for pace.

    I certainly wouldnt suggest weighting each of them the same however.

    why would you weight a race for pace, is what interests me.
    pace of any flavour has winners and losers, so you adjust individual horses maybe(??), but that's not the same as adjusting races(which i would not contemplate, but would like to hear how and why others would)
    anyway how are you going to weight races, assuming you do(another interesting topic i need educating on)?
    +1 -1
  • DarkDark    909 posts
    edited March 2012
    Well if you are using speedratings in their most basic form (an overall time) it doesn't tell the full story of the horses performance. Using a 600m sectional alone is useful but not nearly as useful as complete 200m splits.

    I would suggest the weighting (early V's late) would be directly correlated with the pace of the race.... From my limited analysis on WA races it seems negligible.

    The heavy hitters in the US (Sartin et al) agree that any horse that can reel off quick sectionals in more than one "section" of the race are far better horses (and betting propositions) than those that can simply run a fast overall time. Breaking the times down completely would go some way to producing a more accurate speedrating IMO.

    I didnt see the name you posted??? (EDIT: just noticed Falcons post... Z?, not overly secretive it if is) but the gentleman reportedly worth $600m+ when he passed is an inspiration to most things i do with racing...
    +1 -1
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