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Saturday 17th December - CB Cox Stakes

West Australian Racing

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  • rot8inrot8in    1,881 posts
    said:

    said:

    Greg Hoops didn't do too well at all today.

    three winners...didnt go too bad. Morning mist was scratched, his second pick there was Rosie Rocket. Compared to his normal form though....was probably off his game! :lol:
    actually i was reading your tips Matt(thought they were hoops)....Moonlight bay ...welldone
    +1 -1
  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    8,415 posts
    Well done Kyra. Great effort.
    +1 -1
  • SemipropunterSemipropunter    438 posts
    said:

    said:

    said:

    Greg Hoops didn't do too well at all today.

    three winners...didnt go too bad. Morning mist was scratched, his second pick there was Rosie Rocket. Compared to his normal form though....was probably off his game! :lol:
    actually i was reading your tips Matt(thought they were hoops)....Moonlight bay ...welldone
    I made the same mistake :oops:

    As for Hoops, I thought he was pretty close to the mark:

    Caves Road was deadset slaughtered-that ride just looks worse the more I watch the replay.

    All Friared Up- Finished like a train to just miss

    Elusive Image- Got too far back and got going too late-another close second. If those three get up(and they should have), he'd have tipped 6 out of 9 winnners and you'd be hailing him a genius
    +1 -1
  • goosegoose    1,638 posts
    Cant separate the Elusive Image and Caves Road rides and was on both actually backed 1 winner 4 seconds and a third yesterday what a way to do your money.
    +1 -1
  • dungydungy    9,278 posts
    said:

    Cant separate the Elusive Image and Caves Road rides and was on both actually backed 1 winner 4 seconds and a third yesterday what a way to do your money.

    That was my day alsoGoose im with you both those rides were dead set average if the were run again and ridden differant they both would win on the bit
    +1 -1
  • goosegoose    1,638 posts
    Yep Dungy I know its easy from the grandstand but try and get the horse to the outside at Ascot and give it clear running straight is not long enough at Ascot to look for runs.
    +1 -1
  • SemipropunterSemipropunter    438 posts
    said:

    Yep Dungy I know its easy from the grandstand but try and get the horse to the outside at Ascot and give it clear running straight is not long enough at Ascot to look for runs.

    The thing that annoyed me the most about Harvey's ride on Caves Road was that he panicked. If he was a tad more patient, the run on the outside appeared. Instead he panicked and went looking for inside runs and ran into more trouble than he would have been if he just counted and waited. Then again the margin of 3/4 length is more than it looked live, so maybe he loses by a half head anyway?
    +1 -1
  • goosegoose    1,638 posts
    Could be right was maybe dying on its run 50m out too not sure that I would take the short price next start.
    +1 -1
  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    Hoop bagging is a favourite hobby of mine, but not sure this hysteria about both those rides is warranted.

    The Wiz got put in a pocket a long way out . . . if he goes early to prevent that and gets rolled . . . he gets bagged for going too early.

    Ponty was always in a pocket. Don't see why this is no different to 15 other rides on the day who had no luck.

    Not sure what you want them to do - levitate out, or knock them down and get months?

    Tactical cock ups (where no other party contributed), are different and simply can't be excused. Such as PJC on Senhor De Gama on 5/11.
    +1 -1
  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    HTF does this rating system work. First a point on Ringmeister mysteriously vanishes, now God Has Spoken gets only 2 points for a WFA win . . . . . . since when can that happen?
    +1 -1
  • joneseejonesee    715 posts
    said:

    Could be right was maybe dying on its run 50m out too not sure that I would take the short price next start.

    It is a Lindsey Smith horse so it will be shorter than it should be-- thats for sure!
    +1 -1
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    ony 2 points..they have to be joking..xmas is not for another 6 days.
    +1 -1
  • SemipropunterSemipropunter    438 posts
    said:

    Hoop bagging is a favourite hobby of mine, but not sure this hysteria about both those rides is warranted.

    The Wiz got put in a pocket a long way out . . . if he goes early to prevent that and gets rolled . . . he gets bagged for going too early.

    Ponty was always in a pocket. Don't see why this is no different to 15 other rides on the day who had no luck.

    Not sure what you want them to do - levitate out, or knock them down and get months?

    Tactical cock ups (where no other party contributed), are different and simply can't be excused. Such as PJC on Senhor De Gama on 5/11.

    I think the criticism of Harvey is warranted. He went inside just before the run down the centre of the track presented itself-coincidently the winner took the run Harvey gave up.
    +1 -1
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    said:

    said:

    Hoop bagging is a favourite hobby of mine, but not sure this hysteria about both those rides is warranted.

    The Wiz got put in a pocket a long way out . . . if he goes early to prevent that and gets rolled . . . he gets bagged for going too early.

    Ponty was always in a pocket. Don't see why this is no different to 15 other rides on the day who had no luck.

    Not sure what you want them to do - levitate out, or knock them down and get months?

    Tactical cock ups (where no other party contributed), are different and simply can't be excused. Such as PJC on Senhor De Gama on 5/11.

    I think the criticism of Harvey is warranted. He went inside just before the run down the centre of the track presented itself-coincidently the winner took the run Harvey gave up.
    harvey doesnt get to make his decision after watching the replay.......like you have just done.
    Fair dinkum, if he gets up, he's a genius. He wasnt that badly held up, changed direction a few times and got a miracle run through. Thought it was a good ride, Cavallo just had the moving line and the momentum.
    +1 -1
  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    said:

    ony 2 points..they have to be joking..xmas is not for another 6 days.

    I understand they need to make sure the Perth Cup penalty is reasonable, and that the penalty is tied to the rating

    But how can win a race in the top handful staged in the entire WA calendar . . . . and get penalised half the points you'd get for winning a crappy midweeker???

    So there's a sliding penalty scale now?? Where's that in writing? This whole system is an absolute mess. Debacle.
    +1 -1
  • SemipropunterSemipropunter    438 posts
    said:

    said:

    said:

    Hoop bagging is a favourite hobby of mine, but not sure this hysteria about both those rides is warranted.

    The Wiz got put in a pocket a long way out . . . if he goes early to prevent that and gets rolled . . . he gets bagged for going too early.

    Ponty was always in a pocket. Don't see why this is no different to 15 other rides on the day who had no luck.

    Not sure what you want them to do - levitate out, or knock them down and get months?

    Tactical cock ups (where no other party contributed), are different and simply can't be excused. Such as PJC on Senhor De Gama on 5/11.

    I think the criticism of Harvey is warranted. He went inside just before the run down the centre of the track presented itself-coincidently the winner took the run Harvey gave up.
    harvey doesnt get to make his decision after watching the replay.......like you have just done.
    Fair dinkum, if he gets up, he's a genius. He wasnt that badly held up, changed direction a few times and got a miracle run through. Thought it was a good ride, Cavallo just had the moving line and the momentum.
    I posted my thoughts on here straight after the race. I watched the replay again saturday night and my opinion didn't change. There's no point chasing an inside run if you end up in a worse position than where you started.
    +1 -1
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    funk, surely the owners assn could ask the question on why only 2 points..."Oi, my horse won a piddling race and cops 4..wtf is going on"
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    funk, surely the owners assn could ask the question on why only 2 points..."Oi, my horse won a piddling race and cops 4..wtf is going on"

    well i am the last person to stick up for the handicapper.....but.
    it was a wfa race(where handicapper has no say on weights) and although he usually rehandicaps from these types of races pathetically, this time it is probably about where it should be, considering the pre race rating(assuming they are correct which is another topic) of the horses that finished in the money.
    prize money should have no bearing on it, only the horses you are racing against and their ratings.
    +1 -1
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,950 posts
    Speaking of points awarded, gee they didn't miss Highly Toxic, 14 pts. Latoria has won the same number of races, same prizemoney and is rated 84. This will equate to a massive swing in weights if they meet again.
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    said:

    funk, surely the owners assn could ask the question on why only 2 points..."Oi, my horse won a piddling race and cops 4..wtf is going on"

    well i am the last person to stick up for the handicapper.....but.
    it was a wfa race(where handicapper has no say on weights) and although he usually rehandicaps from these types of races pathetically, this time it is probably about where it should be, considering the pre race rating(assuming they are correct which is another topic) of the horses that finished in the money.
    prize money should have no bearing on it, only the horses you are racing against and their ratings.

    actually, i have to recant! :oops: , had my mind on other things, and on further study it's got out of it about 3 points light imo , so apologies for my earlier nonsense!
    +1 -1
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    good man, carey.... :wink:
    +1 -1
  • RodentRodent    7,446 posts
    1st God Has Spoken goes from 99 to 101
    2nd Kincaple...........goes from 99 to 102 WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    +1 -1
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    From RWWA:

    GHS just has a rating in the system that aligns with his weight in the Perth Cup of 54kg.

    KINCAPLE was entered today for the ATA on Saturday so has been reassessed into that race and an applicable rating assigned.

    If GHS was also entered for the ATA his rating would need to have been reassessed today also ? we obviously wouldn?t have GHS with less weight than KINCAPLE if entered in a handicap together. If the Perth Cup weights had not already been released we would have reassessed the entire field from the Cox Stakes on Monday, however, with the weights already out we are only able to penalise GHS as the winner of the race. Had KINCAPLE not have been entered for the ATA on Saturday then we would have left his rating at 99 in the system which also aligned with the Perth Cup weight and reassess him again after 31/12. Effectively KINCAPLE will run off 102 on Saturday (if he starts) and then go back and run off 99 in the Perth Cup.
    +1 -1
  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    Oh dear.

    Should've stuck to what my mail was (weights after Cox).
    +1 -1
  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    And gave it 64kg hahaha
    +1 -1
  • RodentRodent    7,446 posts
    What a mess. The ratings need to be consistent. Weights for feature events should reflect ratings at the time weights are released. I have no problem with smart trainers getting into feature events light by winning the right races.
    Just keep the ratings up to date and fair dinkum. Piss off your country rating/metro rating and piss off your arbitrary changes so the ratings fit the weights for your feature races.
    Keep the ratings honest, weight horses into feature races accordingly and then penalise into the feature races when necessary. We all know that in feature races, the weight carried on race day may be below what their race day rating might suggest. There is no need to fudge the rating along the way.
    Just fix it, it's not too hard.
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    What a mess. The ratings need to be consistent. Weights for feature events should reflect ratings at the time weights are released. I have no problem with smart trainers getting into feature events light by winning the right races.
    Just keep the ratings up to date and fair dinkum. Piss off your country rating/metro rating and piss off your arbitrary changes so the ratings fit the weights for your feature races.
    Keep the ratings honest, weight horses into feature races accordingly and then penalise into the feature races when necessary. We all know that in feature races, the weight carried on race day may be below what their race day rating might suggest. There is no need to fudge the rating along the way.
    Just fix it, it's not too hard.

    well i read what diva posted and i fell off my chair laughing, so was unable to post comment at the time. :lol:
    fair dinkum, it's just time for him to toss it in, and admit he is not up to the job.
    the rating should simply reflect the standard of the horse after it's previous race, nothing more.
    +1 -1
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