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An open letter to RWWA Thoroughbred Chief Steward Brad Lewis

West Australian Racing

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  • AquanitaAquanita    566 posts
    Probably pointless trying to get anyone to change their already polarised view but there appears little doubt that McEvoy,s actions in the Stewards Room had more influence on the protest result than his actions on the track. Handed the decision to Luckygray on a gift wrapped platter.
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    Probably pointless trying to get anyone to change their already polarised view but there appears little doubt that McEvoy,s actions in the Stewards Room had more influence on the protest result than his actions on the track. Handed the decision to Luckygray on a gift wrapped platter.

    that i can agree with 100%.
    i don't know what he is usually like, but he appeared almost disinterested.
    maybe because he thought it was frivolous(his involvement) and no hope.
  • GlenmoreParkGlenmorePark    527 posts
    said:

    said:

    Have absolutely no idea who Andrew Carter is, and what happened to him at the hands of RWWA Stewards but I notice that he has never been on this forum until the Railway Stakes and then launches an offensive against the Stewards--no posts on any other issue.

    He may, or may not have a case, but the obvious bitterness of his posts would suggest he is motivated by revenge and his credibility is questionable.

    well, you should not judge until you have walked a mile in his shoes.
    No need to be a Rhodes scholar to see that whatever happened to him has made him extremely bitter toward the Stewards--that doesn't make what he says here right though.

    He wouldn't be the first person here, or elsewhere, that has had their lives totally turned on its head by the actions of others. You may think it sounds trite, but the reality is that the best way to get over these events is to move forward.

    And no I have not walked in his shoes, but guess what, neither he or you have wallked in mine (and no, I do not want to turn this into a 'my tragedies are worse than yours etc')
  • GlenmoreParkGlenmorePark    527 posts
    said:

    said:

    Probably pointless trying to get anyone to change their already polarised view but there appears little doubt that McEvoy,s actions in the Stewards Room had more influence on the protest result than his actions on the track. Handed the decision to Luckygray on a gift wrapped platter.

    that i can agree with 100%.
    i don't know what he is usually like, but he appeared almost disinterested.
    maybe because he thought it was frivolous(his involvement) and no hope.
    Think that is where the protest was decided--the moment KM confirmed he had moved out when obviously not clear of WS the race was gone
  • TheFunksterTheFunkster    3,840 posts
    said:

    said:

    said:

    Probably pointless trying to get anyone to change their already polarised view but there appears little doubt that McEvoy,s actions in the Stewards Room had more influence on the protest result than his actions on the track. Handed the decision to Luckygray on a gift wrapped platter.

    that i can agree with 100%.
    i don't know what he is usually like, but he appeared almost disinterested.
    maybe because he thought it was frivolous(his involvement) and no hope.
    Think that is where the protest was decided--the moment KM confirmed he had moved out when obviously not clear of WS the race was gone
    Agree McEvoy's representation in the room is where it was lost.
    But when he moved out he was well clear of WS, who had already copped the interference from BT laying in. HR was not clear of BT when he moved out, but the main interference had already happened
  • everreadyeverready    282 posts
    said:

    Have absolutely no idea who Andrew Carter is, and what happened to him at the hands of RWWA Stewards but I notice that he has never been on this forum until the Railway Stakes and then launches an offensive against the Stewards--no posts on any other issue.

    He may, or may not have a case, but the obvious bitterness of his posts would suggest he is motivated by revenge and his credibility is questionable.[/quote
    well said :P :P

  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    Ever Ready your own credibility is decreasing by the second as it is always the last resort of the feeble minded to attack someone personally when they can't effectively counter a logical argument.

    I've been watching, analysing and betting on races for the past thirty years and even prior to that I was just watching races so I have a fair idea how to analyse a race.

    The very last show I did for Perth Racing's Singapore live telecasts I tipped four winners and two seconds on an eight race card at Belmont including basically declaring Talk To The Wall at 15bucks and in the same race threw in Rancher's Boy to run a place in my tips and I think from memory it paid 9.20 a place.

    I also made Blevvo an eachway special at 9 bucks and if it wasn't Danny Miller riding it, it wins instead of being beaten an eyelash.

    So I have no need to establish my credentials to people like you and your cohort Glenmore Park who clearly has many a losing day if he thinks that protest result was the correct decision.

    Clearly you don't comprehend what I and other people have been saying or the llkes of Ron Dufficy, arguably the best racing analyst in the country and that is based on upon the available video evidence you could not possibly uphold that protest and I dare say Ron Dufficy is a fair bit better judge than the likes of you and Glenmore Park.

    Dufficy went as far as labelling the decision disgraceful on national television or are you going to turn around and say he's got no idea as well.

    No one not even JC himself or herself depending upon what your beliefs are, if any, could guarantee that He's Remarkable was the exclusive cause of that interference and you have to be able to prove that beyond doubt to uphold a protest such at that one when the eventual winner has not been directly interfered with by the first past the post horse.

    If he had directly interfered with him it's a completely different story that would result in the protest being automatically upheld as long it could be proven that He's Remarkable actually interfered with Luckygray but we're not talking about direct interference we're talking about indirect interference .

    The problem with this indirect interference decision is that the stewards have acted upon a numbers of assumptions and pure supposition without any semblance of conclusive vision.

    The first thing my editor taught me when I was a cadet journalist at trotwest is to never assume anything as when you assume things you make an ass out of u and me.

    The benefit of the doubt always go to the first past the horse especially in this instance when there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Big Ted contributed significantly to the interference.

    As a matter of fact the video evidence of that having occurred is far more conclusive than any video evidence produced blaming He's Remarkable and McEvoy for causing the problem.

    Again please explain how on earth McEvoy caused the problem when he's in exactly the same position prior to and immediately after the interfence and has not shifted at that stage.

    Big Ted's jockey is clearly pulling on the right hand rein to pull him off Waratah's Secret as Big Ted's head is turned to the right and this is happening prior to the interference occurring.

    Based upon all of the available video evidence the 2011 Railway Stakes protest decision easily rockets into the Top 5 all time worst protest decisions in Australian racing history and it climbs into the Top 5 with a bullet.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,985 posts
    Andrew it is almost 7 days on from the race.

    I think this one was written in stone last Saturday and no amount of rehashing the same story or ideas is going to make a reversal of the decision possible.
  • ericwanduericwandu    544 posts
    edit: in the reply the below i didnt not bother reading ACs next novel


    time to get over it

    andrew i read your story by a few who spruiked it on here.

    but honestly your boring me.

    as far as i am concerned you got a settlement on your case. are you just trying to find a reason to fight again. if so goodluck.

    by the way i like the way you joined up the day of the railway its just blah, move on fairy. you look like a tool now crying on.
  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    Eric the fact remains I have continually mounted a logical argument and have not resorted to attacking people personally unlike your good self. The fact that people like yourself resort to personal attacks by calling me a tool suggests that you can't effectively counter the argument and wish to distract from the whole point of this thread.
    The point I am trying to get across is that not only could the protest not be upheld on anything resembling a logical basis but that the stewards treated the public, punters and industry participants in a contemptuous and arrogant manner by failing to come out publicly and explain the decision post race, a decision which has potentially huge ramifications for the racing industry.
  • Can you please post the reply from stewards
  • meatpiemeatpie    606 posts
    said:

    Eric the fact remains I have continually mounted a logical argument and have not resorted to attacking people personally unlike your good self. The fact that people like yourself resort to personal attacks by calling me a tool suggests that you can't effectively counter the argument and wish to distract from the whole point of this thread.
    The point I am trying to get across is that not only could the protest not be upheld on anything resembling a logical basis but that the stewards treated the public, punters and industry participants in a contemptuous and arrogant manner by failing to come out publicly and explain the decision post race, a decision which has potentially huge ramifications for the racing industry.

    This is convected anger or concern, there are no long term ramifications to the WA racing industry its almost like you hope there will be.
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,483 posts
    BC, you have not replied to the question as to where you get your daily bread?
    It certainly is not from IGA.... :wink:
  • has no relevance to the protest - if you want to talk to me I will be at Ascot today
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,985 posts
    said:

    has no relevance to the protest - if you want to talk to me I will be at Ascot today

    shouldn't be hard to find you, expected crowd including a couple of stray dogs, between 4 and 7 on track

    if it wasn't for the 2YO race this card would be worse than a Country meeting on a Thursday
  • said:

    said:

    Hi Damien,
    I know what a few sires have been bought for, and a Group I winner over a mile would go very close to $4 million.
    I'd imagine he could be syndicated quite easily.
    There is a lot of sires, that haven't been Group 1 winners, that have a service fee over $10k.
    His father, Pentire, is a $30k service fee. If he's half as good, it won't take long.
    Keep smilin'
    K.B

    And there are Group 1 winners in WA that can't even get an advertised service fee.
    Can't think of any off the top of my head. Who are they Damien ?
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,483 posts
    Neither can I Wilson....
    Did Musket win a group race...not a 1 though...
  • chocchoc    789 posts
    AC keep fighting. You were dealt an injustice that would make any man hostile.
    I'd like to offer the following brief comment:
    "The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it".
    Who said it? Adolf Hitler, former Chancellor of Germany.
  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    Thanks for the support choc as I have repeatedly stated this is a serious and legitimate issue. Just wait until one of these guys horses is on the end of some indrect interference that costs them the race and when the protest is not given due consideration watch them scream blue bloody murder and it will happen maybe not next week or the following week but it will happen eventually. Unfortunately in my opinion this decision has opened up a pandora's box of potential problems.
  • FearlessKat123FearlessKat123    35 posts
    said:

    Ever Ready your own credibility is decreasing by the second as it is always the last resort of the feeble minded to attack someone personally when they can't effectively counter a logical argument.

    I've been watching, analysing and betting on races for the past thirty years and even prior to that I was just watching races so I have a fair idea how to analyse a race.

    The very last show I did for Perth Racing's Singapore live telecasts I tipped four winners and two seconds on an eight race card at Belmont including basically declaring Talk To The Wall at 15bucks and in the same race threw in Rancher's Boy to run a place in my tips and I think from memory it paid 9.20 a place.

    I also made Blevvo an eachway special at 9 bucks and if it wasn't Danny Miller riding it, it wins instead of being beaten an eyelash.

    Build a Bridge and walk over it please you are a Joke and we in the racing circle are laughing at you Andrew

    So I have no need to establish my credentials to people like you and your cohort Glenmore Park who clearly has many a losing day if he thinks that protest result was the correct decision.

    Clearly you don't comprehend what I and other people have been saying or the llkes of Ron Dufficy, arguably the best racing analyst in the country and that is based on upon the available video evidence you could not possibly uphold that protest and I dare say Ron Dufficy is a fair bit better judge than the likes of you and Glenmore Park.

    Dufficy went as far as labelling the decision disgraceful on national television or are you going to turn around and say he's got no idea as well.

    No one not even JC himself or herself depending upon what your beliefs are, if any, could guarantee that He's Remarkable was the exclusive cause of that interference and you have to be able to prove that beyond doubt to uphold a protest such at that one when the eventual winner has not been directly interfered with by the first past the post horse.

    If he had directly interfered with him it's a completely different story that would result in the protest being automatically upheld as long it could be proven that He's Remarkable actually interfered with Luckygray but we're not talking about direct interference we're talking about indirect interference .

    The problem with this indirect interference decision is that the stewards have acted upon a numbers of assumptions and pure supposition without any semblance of conclusive vision.

    The first thing my editor taught me when I was a cadet journalist at trotwest is to never assume anything as when you assume things you make an ass out of u and me.

    The benefit of the doubt always go to the first past the horse especially in this instance when there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Big Ted contributed significantly to the interference.

    As a matter of fact the video evidence of that having occurred is far more conclusive than any video evidence produced blaming He's Remarkable and McEvoy for causing the problem.

    Again please explain how on earth McEvoy caused the problem when he's in exactly the same position prior to and immediately after the interfence and has not shifted at that stage.

    Big Ted's jockey is clearly pulling on the right hand rein to pull him off Waratah's Secret as Big Ted's head is turned to the right and this is happening prior to the interference occurring.

    Based upon all of the available video evidence the 2011 Railway Stakes protest decision easily rockets into the Top 5 all time worst protest decisions in Australian racing history and it climbs into the Top 5 with a bullet.

    :lol: 8)
  • FearlessKat123FearlessKat123    35 posts
    said:

    Thanks for the support choc as I have repeatedly stated this is a serious and legitimate issue. Just wait until one of these guys horses is on the end of some indrect interference that costs them the race and when the protest is not given due consideration watch them scream blue bloody murder and it will happen maybe not next week or the following week but it will happen eventually. Unfortunately in my opinion this decision has opened up a pandora's box of potential problems.

    Build a bridge and walk over it Andrew we in the racing circle are laughing at you :lol: 8)
  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    Wouldn't be the first time Kat and I was proven to be correct there as well.
  • FearlessKat123FearlessKat123    35 posts
    said:

    Wouldn't be the first time Kat and I was proven to be correct there as well.

    I think i might Protest against you Andrew you had the inside running to your self then caused a lot of interference towards the end of my shift :D
  • said:

    Neither can I Wilson....
    Did Musket win a group race...not a 1 though...

    I'm battling here. A group 1 winner in WA that can't command an advertised service fee. Damien help please.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,985 posts
    said:

    said:

    Neither can I Wilson....
    Did Musket win a group race...not a 1 though...

    I'm battling here. A group 1 winner in WA that can't command an advertised service fee. Damien help please.
    My comments may have been taken out of context. My point was I see no point in paying $4M or even close for Stallions standing here in WA, when the majority of the Group 1 winners that do stand here, even the majority of Stallions that stand here, can't do so without discounting their advertised service fee's. Kerrin seems to think that the price tag spoken about for He's Remarkable is not that high. My point is that if you are that desperate for a Group 1 win and you have to come to WA to get it, then go home to NZ to stand, surely smart breeders will see that for what it was.

    For me the proof in the pudding is that both International and Interstate Studs have contacted me in the last month alone to test the waters on the outright sale or relocation of Stallions to WA that have come under pressure due to other commercial decisions being made at those Studs.

    So saturated is the marketplace, that if the offered Stallion has had crops to run and hasn't at this point produced a black type runner I immediately decline the offer. If they are yet to stand, as in the case of the most recent International offer, then I will decline that horse as well unless it is a multiple Group 1 winner, and preferably in at least two seperate countries.

    I am not in a hurry and it is the biggest buyers marketplace at the moment.
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,483 posts
    I agree, damien, we here in the west seem to be over stocked with stallions...mediocre or not yet proven.
    That is why many of our bigger breeders send their mares east to be mated..at a cost..to proven, high class sires.
    Personally, a breeder is the last thing I would want to be.
    BUT, we can't do without them..they are the guys that take the big punt...so, hats off to them.
  • AndrewCarterAndrewCarter    2,171 posts
    Did anyone see last weeks edition of TVN's Get On we copped a massive spray and deservedly so over the protest and there were some classic twitter comments including this one Neil Armstrong relegated to 2nd after interference at the top of the ladder. #tag Perth Stewards.

    On a more serious note they quite rightly pointed out as I already have that the stewards further exacerbated the situation by not coming out and immediately explaining their reasoning behind their decision as this has become the regular practice now in Melbourne and Sydney.

    They also pointed out while you might not always agree with their decisionsTerry Bailey and Ray Murrihy invariably front the media and provide an explanation of how they came to that decision.

    For Brad Lewis to fail to come out and provide an explanation as I have already stated on several occasions was clearly the incorrect way to handle the matter and and his actions were arrogant and contemptuous of the 25,000 strong crowd, punters throughout Australia, the media and industry participants.
  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,567 posts
    I don't know if coming out and explaining their decision (the stewards) will achieve anything, it still isn't going to change anyone's views on the matter. And as for people giving a spray, they are entitled to their opinion, however they are not in charge.

    The connections would/have been given an explanation, and that's all that is probably required. The hearing was for all to see (and I assume that it can be seen elsewhere). The issue here is for RWWA. If they deem that the enquiry/protest was dealt with according to their guidelines, then they are going to be satisfied with the outcome. If this was not dealt with appropriately, then they have to act accordingly (ie changing personnel, issuing a statement etc).

    It would seem that RWWA are happy with the way things were handled. The public will cry Is that good enough?...probably not. Is that just?....again, probably not. But they are the governing body. The stewards are in charge of the final decision and they have been trusted to perform this duty according to a set of guidelines and a process. There isnt anything personal here, they have acted appropriately it would seem by their employer RWWA.

    Right or wrong, that's how I see it. For the record I don't think it should have been upheld and that's my opinion.
  • danishdanish    96 posts
    said:

    said:

    Neither can I Wilson....
    Did Musket win a group race...not a 1 though...

    I'm battling here. A group 1 winner in WA that can't command an advertised service fee. Damien help please.
    gotta be island morn

    last seen somewhere near albany
  • PieManPieMan    271 posts
    Great post, H-Bomber. Very well said.
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