the cost's involved in owning a horse??

Brunswick_cow · October 2011

What are the monthly costs involved in owning a horse and having them in a decent stable, see alot of horses that you wonder why they bother just wondering what sort of $$$ it's costing them,thanks! :?:

paraletic · October 2011

I have a 3 year old filly and a 2 year old gelding in Melb trained by Luke Oliver at Caulfield. Me and some mates own 10% of both. On average it costs us between $270 - $290 per month for each horse.

So to answer your question in total it prob cost about $3k per month to keep a horse going. Im new to this game so i dont know alot about it but this has been my experience thus far. When they are spelling the costs are less.

Would like to know how much it costs here in Perth? Is there any difference in price?

NightEyes · October 2011

The costs involved vary greatly from stable to stable depending on the quality of horse, trainer and the stakes available where they are racing.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a trainer charging less than $50 a day plus expenses (Farrier, vet, medications etc.)

Recomended rates are about $115 a day - Naturally these rates would outprice the stakes in some places and make it unviable.

As has been said many times on this forum smart people don't race for smart investing or making money. You race horses because you love it and cross your fingers and hope for star! Most owners / trainers are lucky to have horses which can "pay there way".

I have heard of rates like $490~ being charged at "The best" stables in melbourne... In that instance you are obviously paying for a name, experience, the best facilities and very expensive horses. This includes security etc etc... At they end of the day those owners probably have a similar % success rate as other trainers just with higher stakes money horses and horses which they are racing because they maybe hope to get to the cox plate or melbourne cup or something. They have the money and want spend it which is what makes the game work. Without those owners we wouldn't have an industry.

:wink:

thefalcon · October 2011

well said, nighteyes.

TheDiva · October 2011

anywhere from $2k a month, up to $3k a month.
$2k generally your bush trainer with their own property up to the bigger Ascot trainers closer to the $3k end of the scale.

Raff_2000 · October 2011

I reckon the best way to do it and no doubt this is popular is put together a syndicate of 10 people. Family, friends, work collegues (the one's that you get along with :wink: ) etc...

Splitting it up like this means that it is a lot more affordable and you can have a wonderful day at the races with good company.

1 of the most rewarding things I find in being a strapper is watching the excited owners after their horse wins prize money or better still comes in first. There's always a lot of hugging and hi fiving and it's impossible to wipe the :D off their face.

Tivers · October 2011

Yep - better to have 9 other people to drink (celebrate) with than to drink alone............

TheDiva · October 2011

amen! make sure you get one rich owner who likes to shout the bar!

motivated · October 2011

I hear Ascot Bloodstock are good for a shout the bar round after they have a win!

thefalcon · October 2011

dream on, motivated....they wouldn't give you a kick in a room full of sherrins... :P
only joking mate, they are a great bunch of fellas....give you the shirt off their back....for a price.. :lol:

H-BOMBER · October 2011

said:
I reckon the best way to do it and no doubt this is popular is put together a syndicate of 10 people. Family, friends, work collegues (the one's that you get along with :wink: ) etc...

Splitting it up like this means that it is a lot more affordable and you can have a wonderful day at the races with good company.

1 of the most rewarding things I find in being a strapper is watching the excited owners after their horse wins prize money or better still comes in first. There's always a lot of hugging and hi fiving and it's impossible to wipe the :D off their face.

Yep, agree with all that! I organised 10 people for Hibernian and we have had a great time with his last prep, from Northam Maiden to Saturday winner. But even with the money he has won we are still not back to even (nearly but), but really thats not what its all about. I dont want to put noses out of joint but if you are in a position to select a trainer, I would suggest a young gun. In my experience they are the much more motivated and realistic, but thats just my experience. Expenses in full work and racing is around $3000 per month.

LuckyLongshots · October 2011

Yes around the $2k - $3k per month when in full work.

Syndicate is best for keeping prices viable.

ph3var · October 2011

Our 2YO gelding is on average $8k a quarter.

silks · October 2011

yep i agree with the young person as they arent like the older trainers the youngs ones listen put it all together and whammo there open to new ideas and yes much more of that motivation to succeed and wow i am surprised to hear the costs of the trainers bills i must be doing somethng wrong as i have only invoiced 1 over the 2 grand mark shit i do have to do overhaul of my costings. What is the general thinking out there if a trainer is cheap does everyone think he/she is no good :o

SilverPlated · October 2011

FYI, as a young trainer as I am on my own land , not paying $1000/week for Ascot stables, I can afford to lower my fees. Our quality of care and work does not get discounted.

DamienWyer · October 2011

said:
FYI, as a young trainer as I am on my own land , not paying $1000/week for Ascot stables, I can afford to lower my fees. Our quality of care and work does not get discounted.

So given that, what do you charge as a base rate per day ?

SilverPlated · October 2011

Flat rate $1500 plus GST a month incl farrier, wormers, suppliments, track fees, transport to track ect.

I feel a flat monthly rate is appreciatted by owners rather than getting an unexpected bill with all those unexpected items.

silks · October 2011

i to have my own land so that is why i charge less than others. But i do ask the question why do trainers in perth and the big stables get the horses to pre train and train in full work, i can understand when they are in full work but if i owned a horse i would pay a trainer in the country to pre train and then send them to a trainer with the resources available. Horses have a much more relaxed lifestyle in the country being pre trained and then at the business end send them to the city and just put the final touches to them. Maybe i am wrong but thats my thoughts. please opinion would be appreciated.

darkshines · October 2011

said:
i to have my own land so that is why i charge less than others. But i do ask the question why do trainers in perth and the big stables get the horses to pre train and train in full work, i can understand when they are in full work but if i owned a horse i would pay a trainer in the country to pre train and then send them to a trainer with the resources available. Horses have a much more relaxed lifestyle in the country being pre trained and then at the business end send them to the city and just put the final touches to them. Maybe i am wrong but thats my thoughts. please opinion would be appreciated.

Your thoughts are spot on IMO.

Northerly · October 2011

said:
i to have my own land so that is why i charge less than others. But i do ask the question why do trainers in perth and the big stables get the horses to pre train and train in full work, i can understand when they are in full work but if i owned a horse i would pay a trainer in the country to pre train and then send them to a trainer with the resources available. Horses have a much more relaxed lifestyle in the country being pre trained and then at the business end send them to the city and just put the final touches to them. Maybe i am wrong but thats my thoughts. please opinion would be appreciated.

I prefer the reverse, for younger horses that is. Get them pre trained in at Ascot and then get them into a more rural environment to get the polish on them. It is then a good change to get them out of the hussle and bussle and into a more relaxed enviornment before they are about to trial and race.

[DeletedUser] · October 2011

said:
Flat rate $1500 plus GST a month incl farrier, wormers, suppliments, track fees, transport to track ect.

I feel a flat monthly rate is appreciatted by owners rather than getting an unexpected bill with all those unexpected items.

You would be making zero profit on that.

QU33NBTCH · October 2011

said:

said:
Flat rate $1500 plus GST a month incl farrier, wormers, suppliments, track fees, transport to track ect.

I feel a flat monthly rate is appreciatted by owners rather than getting an unexpected bill with all those unexpected items.
You would be making zero profit on that.

You are so right Wilson, property worth maybe a $1M total horses in work 10, profit ZERO, great business, a lot of hard work for no return.
Win 3 Sat races in the city per year, total 10% return of prizemoney about $9K WOW!!!! one could make more strapping on racedays with no investment.
Oh and remember maybe one owner does not pay his bill ($9K) return still ZERO.
The industry needs to be regulated with less licensed persons being able to undercut training fees.

coastalchill · October 2011

I agree to a point but young trainers can't charge the same as their more experienced counterparts...no-one would use them,you pay for experience and cheques.Not everyone wants their valuable [and yes they all are]horse to be a learning curve.It would be good to have a transparant cost re- experience but it wouldn't work.While they are at it an agistment cost evenly across the board would be nice too.

motivated · October 2011

Trainers are able to charge what they want, young/old/experienced/inexperienced.

The market will dictate if the price is fair or not, if the market deems they are to expensive, they will lose horses and therefore have to change their fees.

For my own opinion, the most expensive part of the game is paying for slow horses, so you should find a trainer that can give you enough info to decide to continue with it or sack it early enough!

The fast ones cost the same amount as the slow ones when it comes to feed and shoeing!

thefalcon · October 2011

This is a very interesting thread and some excellent points raised.
I'll contribute tomorrow....had a few this evening... :D

QU33NBTCH · October 2011

said:
Trainers are able to charge what they want, young/old/experienced/inexperienced.

The market will dictate if the price is fair or not, if the market deems they are to expensive, they will lose horses and therefore have to change their fees.

For my own opinion, the most expensive part of the game is paying for slow horses, so you should find a trainer that can give you enough info to decide to continue with it or sack it early enough!

The fast ones cost the same amount as the slow ones when it comes to feed and shoeing!

A lot of owners feed off these young trainers due to their low training fees, (so they should be protected from themselves) regulation would stop this and save a lot of them from going broke and becoming lost to the industry.
Convincing an owner his horse is no good is tough, usually resulting in a change of trainers once told.
The art of training is to identify the slow ones early and give them the flick as a career will not succeed training them.

Rodent · October 2011

said:

The industry needs to be regulated with less licensed persons being able to undercut training fees.

That sounds anti-competitive with owners being the big losers. Competition fosters innovation. Trainers compete with each other on a lot more than price. Obviously some trainers have to work very cheap to get horses. Even if they aren't making much money, they are getting an opportunity they otherwise wouldn't have. Once they train a few winners and get recognised, they can attract more owners and charge a little more.
If I ever took up training, I'd need numbers in the stable. It'd be nice to make an earn from them but not essential. I know blokes who make a very nice living simply because they know when their horses are ready and they make sure they get plenty when they win. I reckon if you know what you're doing, 3 winners a year at TAB meetings would be enough to see you through.
Throwing $1000 on Haagen would have made GEN a decent wage for the year. Anything else would be a bonus.

TheDiva · October 2011

agree with rodent. supply and demand will always sort the situation out.

the price of a new trainer will only be cheap while he or she is not having a lot of success. As soon as that success comes, his/her prices will go up as the demand for their services will also rise.
If the trainer has no success and their prices are too high, there will be no demand and they will have to lower prices.

The only place i see regulation fitting in to this are that I guess you could have trainers having to show a minimum level of competency. This is happening in most industries now, most notably financial planning and finance broking. Where people are spending money, their money needs to be protected by making sure the service being offered is by a competent person.

fourleggedfriend · October 2011

Can remember back in '85 the stable had a very handy 2yo. Thinking he was some kinda chance to line up and be competitive in the Slipper we contacted the Bart Cummings stable ... 55 bucks a day + extras. :o

Wonder what Bart charges these days :?:

Legless · October 2011

said:

For my own opinion, the most expensive part of the game is paying for slow horses, so you should find a trainer that can give you enough info to decide to continue with it or sack it early enough!

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

and there is not many around - most seem to want to keep going - have heard them all - needs time, over more ground, hasn't quite picked the caper up yet, we'll give it a couple more, stick it in the paddock and it should come back stronger next time in blah blah blah don't fall for it anymore.

Have found a couple that are brutally honest and so far have not been proved wrong - as hard as it is to let go of the investment (breeding/ purchase price, agistment costs, breaking, 1 or 2 prep costs etc in the long run is really the only way to go.

Punter · October 2011

Maybe PTT could get a syndicate going where the end cost to each person equates to $1 a month.

G'day Punter!

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