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Perth Cup change maybe.

West Australian Racing
cubescubes    689 posts
edited November -1 West Australian Racing
Could the Perth Cup be changed this year I mean next year or is it this year. I think its this year Im confused can they run two Cups in the one year no thats not possible is it.
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Comments

  • ShergarShergar    43 posts
    I hope you mean reverted back to a proper 3200 metre cup!
    Its just another 2400 race now, nothing special about it (or the fields it attracts). IMO Black Tom was the last Perth Cup winner.
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    I reckon it is more important to fix the track first to improve racing in Perth as far too more horses are getting blocked for runs.
    I'm still crying over the Perth Cup. How far should have Western Jewel won by? I hate that track even more now. My solution. If you notice Hong Kong weekend races the home turn is so sharp they fan out as they straighten up and horses don't get blocked for a run. Everytime you read Ascot's stewards report you'll find one in every two races will have at least one horse being heldup and having to change course. Change the home turn and you'll remove the interfernce!
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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,471 posts
    Mmmm, good point...
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  • slipatiptomeslipatiptome    3,351 posts
    Short home straight doesn't help. Should be 400 metres minimum.
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  • RazorSharpRazorSharp    439 posts
    "Change the home turn and you'll remove the interfernce!"
    "Short home straight doesn't help. Should be 400 metres minimum."

    You blokes live in Disneyland?

    where are you going to find 400m for the straight, and what changes do you want for the turn, there is limited space at Ascot, next time you go out there open your eyes and have a look :roll:

    Its SIMPLE, teach the jockeys how to ride the track, they ride too tight for starters, they dont have this problem at Moonee Valley, why..because they dont sit back and wait, they take off at the school. If there is interference give them time, fine them. Thats the only way they will learn

    Ascot has been there since year dot, track has been changed once, and not major changes, took some of the hill out and made it wider from what Ive been told.
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  • RodentRodent    7,446 posts
    Camber on turn is good for horses as not as much strain on joints when turning but it keeps the field tighter. Lose the camber and they'll fan on the bend but obviously not so good for the horses.
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  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    said:

    "Change the home turn and you'll remove the interfernce!"
    "Short home straight doesn't help. Should be 400 metres minimum."

    You blokes live in Disneyland?

    where are you going to find 400m for the straight, and what changes do you want for the turn, there is limited space at Ascot, next time you go out there open your eyes and have a look :roll:

    Its SIMPLE, teach the jockeys how to ride the track, they ride too tight for starters, they dont have this problem at Moonee Valley, why..because they dont sit back and wait, they take off at the school. If there is interference give them time, fine them. Thats the only way they will learn

    Ascot has been there since year dot, track has been changed once, and not major changes, took some of the hill out and made it wider from what Ive been told.

    Interestingly, took another look at the replay of the Invitational races held last month (only 3 local jocks involved).

    Amazing difference in the way the race 'looked' (especially head on down back), the way the horses were able to 'flow' when not restrained heavily mid race or ridden ridiculously tight (like they almost always do here). I think the start/stop/start nature of the riding here escalates the layout issues.

    Someone showed me stats once that horses are blocked for runs at Flemington significantly more frequently than at the Valley, which is interesting.
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  • slipatiptomeslipatiptome    3,351 posts
    said:

    "Change the home turn and you'll remove the interfernce!"
    "Short home straight doesn't help. Should be 400 metres minimum."

    You blokes live in Disneyland?

    where are you going to find 400m for the straight,

    Who said anything about finding the 400 metres Donald Duck? :annoyed:

    In my opinion all home straights should be at least 400 metres but obviously in many cases it isn't possible.
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  • cannonballcannonball    8 posts
    The turn at HK is too sharp but at least their track isnt rock hard so not so bad,do that here with our hard tracks and horses will break down all over the place.Not a good idea.
    Razorblade if your the expert in riding,how would ride the track???
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  • RazorSharpRazorSharp    439 posts
    said:

    The turn at HK is too sharp but at least their track isnt rock hard so not so bad,do that here with our hard tracks and horses will break down all over the place.Not a good idea. whats not a good idea?
    Razorblade if your the expert in riding,how would ride the track???

    same way the leading jockeys have ridden it for the last 30 yrs, why is NOW that there is a problem, track hasnt changed has it? problem is the riders here ride too tight
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  • RazorSharpRazorSharp    439 posts
    The less said about the ride on Western Jewel the better, there were only 2 that were worse, both owned by the same owner
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  • RodentRodent    7,446 posts
    said:

    said:

    The turn at HK is too sharp but at least their track isnt rock hard so not so bad,do that here with our hard tracks and horses will break down all over the place.Not a good idea. whats not a good idea?
    Razorblade if your the expert in riding,how would ride the track???

    same way the leading jockeys have ridden it for the last 30 yrs, why is NOW that there is a problem, track hasnt changed has it? problem is the riders here ride too tight
    Yes, the track has changed. There is a more pronounced camber on the turns and increased drainage.
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  • cubescubes    689 posts
    The Cup to be held on NY Eve on the Saturday. Possibility?
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  • slipatiptomeslipatiptome    3,351 posts
    Presuming you want entertainment to follow through to after midnight? If so how inebriated do you think that crowd would be by midnight if they could make the distance? :abeer: :abeer: :abeer:
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  • ShatterStarShatterStar    52 posts
    Regardless of track changes in the past few years it comes down to riding tactics over here. For better or worse too may races are run with horses hunted for position then brakes applied.
    They make the turn look tight because thats how they are riding them
    and IMO a cutaway does nothing to alleviate this because the congestion
    is all but over before it even comes into play.
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  • darkshinesdarkshines    2,837 posts
    EXACTLY!
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  • wotsupwotsup    424 posts
    said:

    said:

    The turn at HK is too sharp but at least their track isnt rock hard so not so bad,do that here with our hard tracks and horses will break down all over the place.Not a good idea. whats not a good idea?
    Razorblade if your the expert in riding,how would ride the track???

    same way the leading jockeys have ridden it for the last 30 yrs, why is NOW that there is a problem, track hasnt changed has it? problem is the riders here ride too tight
    Maybe jocks have no choice as a big percentage of horses are not up to scratch, causing a ruck type field. The idea seems to be if your horse is good enough then go ROUND THE OUTSIDE. Perhaps more owners who can put 2 or 3 horses in a race may save this traffic jamming. Having more than one horse in a race seems to be catching on. We might have to wait awhile, but this trend may break the RUCK ATTITUDE up when better horses come on the seen. Should make for better safer racing for all concerned.
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  • cubescubes    689 posts
    said:

    Could the Perth Cup be changed this year I mean next year or is it this year. I think its this year Im confused can they run two Cups in the one year no thats not possible is it.

    Ahead of the times again...
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  • FreddieFreddie    5 posts
    said:

    Could the Perth Cup be changed this year I mean next year or is it this year. I think its this year Im confused can they run two Cups in the one year no thats not possible is it.

    They can use the same '2011 BMW Perth Cup' Posters they did on 1/1.
    Brilliant cost cutting strategy :lol:
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  • BrubakerBrubaker    219 posts
    said:

    Regardless of track changes in the past few years it comes down to riding tactics over here. For better or worse too may races are run with horses hunted for position then brakes applied.
    They make the turn look tight because thats how they are riding them
    and IMO a cutaway does nothing to alleviate this because the congestion
    is all but over before it even comes into play.

    I hear what you're saying. As I keep saying... in Perth over the last 10/15? years there has developed this "sit and sprint" mentality. Bunch em up and sprint the last 600m. Not surprisingly there is lots of interference and "blocked for run" in the stewards report. Wonder why Dash is riding so many winners when he should be in retirement! :D :D :D Last of the old brigade of jockeys?
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  • BrubakerBrubaker    219 posts
    said:

    Could the Perth Cup be changed this year I mean next year or is it this year. I think its this year Im confused can they run two Cups in the one year no thats not possible is it.

    Yeh. I think its happened before. May have to go back to the war years. Anybody got some stats? :?:
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  • SuburbanPunkSuburbanPunk    199 posts
    1949
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  • DarrahDarrah    2,933 posts
    It's happened several times:

    In 1901 when Flintock & Australian both won

    1927, 1932, 1942, 1949 Ghurka & Beau Vasse

    No Cups in 1926 & 28, 34, 40, 43 & 51. stayed in sync ever since.
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  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Oh dear me...........my curtains are going to fade, and the cows are going to get lost :shock:
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  • lordwaterlordwater    1,127 posts
    said:

    said:

    Regardless of track changes in the past few years it comes down to riding tactics over here. For better or worse too may races are run with horses hunted for position then brakes applied.
    They make the turn look tight because thats how they are riding them
    and IMO a cutaway does nothing to alleviate this because the congestion
    is all but over before it even comes into play.

    I hear what you're saying. As I keep saying... in Perth over the last 10/15? years there has developed this "sit and sprint" mentality. Bunch em up and sprint the last 600m. Not surprisingly there is lots of interference and "blocked for run" in the stewards report. Wonder why Dash is riding so many winners when he should be in retirement! :D :D :D Last of the old brigade of jockeys?
    As long as they take weight of rope into the mix, they can rope DANNY to the PAD while he rides $ 14--60 WINNERS. Thanks Dasher who can come from rear of fields as well. lol.
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  • DownTheBackDownTheBack    96 posts
    DICKBURT , thank you , finally someone who agrees with me .
    The shape of the track promotes horses hugging in around that stupid turn .
    Horses can not fan out because they are constantly turning around that crazy corner .
    Watch racing at randwick , horses from the 600 - 300 can sit a little wide because they are running strait into the turn and are not under pressure .
    Look at the same situation at ascot its a bumping duel to save every inch of ground and they wonder why the stewards reports are so full .
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    Tom Percy was scathing this morning on 6PR about the changes to Perth Cup distance and date, but also the direction of racing in Perth.
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  • TheFunksterTheFunkster    3,840 posts
    said:

    Tom Percy was scathing this morning on 6PR about the changes to Perth Cup distance and date, but also the direction of racing in Perth.

    That's asking for even more trouble. Although it means we could simply build a new grandstand at the other end of the straight at Belmont.
    We could have Belmont races clockwise and Ascot counter-clockwise :P
    I'm sure the horses would love it! :lol:
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  • LuckyLongshotsLuckyLongshots    4,270 posts
    Nice one Funkster! :lol:
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  • LittlefootLittlefoot    2 posts
    said:

    "Change the home turn and you'll remove the interfernce!"
    "Short home straight doesn't help. Should be 400 metres minimum."

    You blokes live in Disneyland?

    where are you going to find 400m for the straight, and what changes do you want for the turn, there is limited space at Ascot, next time you go out there open your eyes and have a look :roll:

    Its SIMPLE, teach the jockeys how to ride the track, they ride too tight for starters, they dont have this problem at Moonee Valley, why..because they dont sit back and wait, they take off at the school. If there is interference give them time, fine them. Thats the only way they will learn

    Ascot has been there since year dot, track has been changed once, and not major changes, took some of the hill out and made it wider from what Ive been told.

    About 6 years ago the Railway Stakes was run at Belmont as Ascot was completely ripped up and resurfaced. From memory I believe they found at least 2 cars underneath the track, may be time to ask Gillette to renew your sponsorship Razorsharp because if thats not a major change ill fly you Disneyland! However the Perth Cup does need to be changed back to 3200m to make it a true staying test...
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