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Kingston Town Classic Final field and market

West Australian Racing

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  • petersstablepetersstable    62 posts
    And perhaps sold to D. Hayes connections.

    Interesting article in the paper re: Lambton Castle.

    Confirmed by Lindsey Smith that the nom was rejected.
    +1 -1
  • DarrahDarrah    2,933 posts
    I'm told it needed to come to town & prove up to a higher class - which I think would have been logical. Like its been beating the likes of Nowa Nowa. Just a hypothetical: if it was put in the field & compounded back through the field when the heat went on & knock a couple down whose bum would they be booting ? Its not very often if ever that a horse goes from Northam into a G1.
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  • bartfargbartfarg    667 posts
    can anyone direct me to information which discusses the condition for nominating for group and listed races, and in particular this race? Or does any know if it clearly states that it is a condition that a horse must have won in the city in order to qualify?
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  • DarrahDarrah    2,933 posts
    I think you will find the term "handicapper's discretion" would be the relevant clause.
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  • RodentRodent    7,446 posts
    Hypothetical.......what if Lambton Castle was an impeccably bred stallion with massive hype surrounding him? With identical form, I'd say he'd be allowed to run.
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    I think you hit the nail on the head.........hype. (and if he was sold for a fortune at the yearling sales).
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  • VoodooVoodoo    1,361 posts
    Absolute CRAP....If David "bloody" Hayes had nominated some promising bush winner do you think Mr Hunter would have rejected his nomination.......Not friggin likely.
    Maidens have started in group 1 races before.......and won.
    L Smith is not an idiot......he knows his horses and would be aware of what is needed to have the horse peak on the day.
    The turf club needs to sort this out and put conditions of entry for these races and take this "handicappers discretion" rubbish right out of the equation.

    Cheers
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    I think you will find the term "handicapper's discretion" would be the relevant clause.

    is hunter still the handicapper?
    i thought he may be better off doing something he understands.

    why should the handicapper have discretion anyway?
    he is an employee of rwwa.
    it's perth racing's race; surely if there is discretion involved in the ballotting, then it should be their committee that decides, not an employee of rwwa.
    +1 -1
  • rompzrompz    206 posts
    kia oro miss into 41 and i heard some more little bets have been put on her again today
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Good, push the others prices up......so I can get on the winner ! :)
    +1 -1
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    Kia Ora Miss? People dont like money!
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  • doopadoopa    35 posts
    Should Lambton Castle have got a start in the race? I guess we will never know however if an owner is willing to pay up then why not let the horse run. Have a look at the noms for the Group 3 Lee Steere on saturday. 18 horses nominated 3 class 5, 2 class 2, 6 class 1 and 7 maidens. Of these and i only had a quick look one of the maidens has run 10 out of 11 at its only start. If the hadicapper is going to use his discretion then surely he should apply it on all group races and not only the group 1's.
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    That is a good point (without comment to the LC circumstance).
    +1 -1
  • bartfargbartfarg    667 posts
    is it not about the ratings. I mean if a 69 rated horse wins the group one, would it not be likely that this race would come under consideration for downgrade at the annual Group and Listed Race review meeting?
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  • petersstablepetersstable    62 posts
    Voodoo & Carey.........

    Absolutely sensational posts.
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  • DarrahDarrah    2,933 posts
    I dont disagree all I was doing was relating what I was told this morning (not by the handicapper) & try to related the process as there were question - no lies no rant just what I was told. I dont have an opinion on the whole thing just adding something to the debate.
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    said:

    is it not about the ratings. I mean if a 69 rated horse wins the group one, would it not be likely that this race would come under consideration for downgrade at the annual Group and Listed Race review meeting?

    If a 69 rater is good enough to win a group 1, it should be downgraded!
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Every horse was a 69 rater at some point in its career, even if only briefly.
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    said:

    is it not about the ratings. I mean if a 69 rated horse wins the group one, would it not be likely that this race would come under consideration for downgrade at the annual Group and Listed Race review meeting?

    If a 69 rater is good enough to win a group 1, it should be downgraded!

    you are assuming the horse is a 69 class animal.

    by using non subjective methods, it is possible to get an idea of the true worth of a horse.
    using some subjective scale which is only a handicappers opinion is nothing to go by.
    in reality you would be far better off taking note of a skilled trainers intentions, rather than some handicapper that thinks he has a clue.
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    I would agree with that Carey but would also duly note that you hate said handicappers guts!
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    I would agree with that Carey but would also duly note that you hate said handicappers guts!

    now behave your self diva, or carey will spill the beans!!! :lol:

    i can't hate somebody i don't know!!
    it's his handicapping i dislike intensely, he may well be a great bloke that is just a pathetic handicapper.
    +1 -1
  • VoodooVoodoo    1,361 posts
    No problem Darrah....you are correct in what you've stated.
    I recall the mare Belinda's Star being beaten in a Beverly maiden......two starts later she duly saluted in the Lee Steere Stakes or Winterbottom I think(one of the major sprints anyway)at 100-1.
    Redding won the Vic Derby as a maiden for christs sake.......it happens.
    Nowhere on the official nomination form for the race does it state a horse needs to have won or been placed on a city track.
    The horses owner/s and the trainer have been treated very poorly in my view and shown very little respect in there assessment of the horses ability.
    I would be very interested to know if RWWA has returned the connections $220 nomination fee.

    Cheers
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    i've just been having a look at the calendar and it appears all so called feature races and stakes races are discretionary.
    wonder when was last time this 'discretion' was used.

    doubt that should be allowed, they should just have conditions saying if not such and such a level, then you're out.

    what happens if said person using his 'discretion', just does not like the connections of the horse being told to go elsewhere?

    it's not as if it's a real g1 anyway. it's just got high prize money, but a g1 it's definitely not.
    +1 -1
  • DarrahDarrah    2,933 posts
    Yep Voodoo I remember Belinda's Star was it Johnny Nelson ? Like I said I was just conveying info just wanted to know the process, as I do on as many occasions as I can.
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  • tonytony    2,436 posts
    For Carey's info the last time the "discretion" was used was to omit Mr President from the Lee Steere
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    For Carey's info the last time the "discretion" was used was to omit Mr President from the Lee Steere

    thanks tony

    interesting,.... that would beg the question; why then was master vision allowed to start? a city maiden?
    has it ever won anywhere but kalgoorlie?
    if he reckons mr president was not worthy, then how do you decide that a provincial 2 class horse is. especially one resuming at an unsuitable distance.

    at least for mr president the distance would have suited, and it's form sure looks ok to me.
    +1 -1
  • doopadoopa    35 posts
    If Mr President was starting in this years Lee Steere based on its form 12 months ago it would start a $2.50 favourite even though it was still a maiden. If they are worried about races being downgraded by sub standard horses winning then the Lee Steere has no hope of being a Group 3 race next year.
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    it never occurred to me doopa that the handicapper is trying to protect the status of the races by refusing them starts.
    is that part of his charter?
    is hunter the judge, jury and executioner here, or are others involved in the decision
    +1 -1
  • tonytony    2,436 posts
    I think it would be surprising if they are considering protecting the status of races this year as with EI preventing any interstate horses coming to WA I would imagine the patent committee would disregard this year when considering future status.
    +1 -1
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    I think it would be surprising if they are considering protecting the status of races this year as with EI preventing any interstate horses coming to WA I would imagine the patent committee would disregard this year when considering future status.

    that never occurred to me either, but makes sense to me.
    +1 -1
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