Comments worth a post but not a thread of their ownHarness & Greyhounds

JayJay

Yes, VK, the administrators who have bought the industry to its knees, whilst conveniently and incorrectly blaming the "industry" itself for its own demise instead of their own ineptness, will doubtless declare that heats and finals and running an actual carnival are "backward thinking". Yet another round of "Industry re-invigoration" will be attached to the Slot race and the proposed GP Redevelopment including the changing of the track camber and reverting to 10 across the front racing,  joining the new business model, the hopeless non handicapping HWOE system, the inept programming and the "$1.3 Million Interdominions" as abject failures in doing anything to arrest the slide. The ace in their pack will be to further "rationalise" the number of country tracks ( and we all know what that means). I doubt a battler trying to win a community race at Wagin and pick up his $3178 (for which he gets slugged a $2,999 HWOE penalty) will give a flying fig about a  Million dollar Slot Race.  Perhaps they are happy not to welcome any Eastern States stables to join them dining out at the trough of largesse, after all who needs the competition. Rumoured flight to Perth on April 3 for the visitors ....lets hope there are some quality eastern states pacers on board, otherwise the slot race will turn into just another FFA like last Friday Night's $450k FFA, and the $300k FFA a fortnight before that. I think the "carnival" has been over for some time.

AbbysAce

Markovina said:

That small club that Bob alludes to - that he is a member of - driven a winner at The Royal Melbourne Showgrounds - Moonee Valley - and Melton - the 3 Melb metropolitan Trotting tracks 

Of the ones still alive - well Brian Gath certainly - i think John Caldow maybe - Noel Shinn definitely ticks the 1st 2 boxes - still has the odd drive - his son Chris does most of the driving - youd reckon Noel would have driven the odd winner at Melton . Geoff Webster - did he win a race at the Showgrounds - hes old enough - youd think when he was the premier SA driver - youd think he maybe came accross for a heat of a Victorian Oaks or something like that . The  Justice bros - Lance had Whirley Dream i think when the Showgrounds was just about closing - so both Lance and John are maybes 

I cant think of any others tho - i dont think Chris Alford had started when the Showgrounds had finished  - Chris Lang would be a chance - he was about 2 yrs younger than Gavin - so he may have driven a winner at the Showgrounds when still a teenager 

Gavin definately drove at the showgrounds, he drove a treble there  december 22 1979, vision on you tube, well worth a look, none led, he hit the 3rd winner once, would have been 18-19

Gilgamesh

No way Watching Our Coin should be 1.25 to Sugarloaf's $4 plus. Had. Whack sugarloaf insurance a place @$2.20

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh said:

No way Watching Our Coin should be 1.25 to Sugarloaf's $4 plus. Had. Whack sugarloaf insurance a place @$2.20

Cracking race, absolute swag full of wins left for bith horses.

JayJay

AbbysAce said:

Markovina said:

 

Gavin definately drove at the showgrounds, he drove a treble there  december 22 1979, vision on you tube, well worth a look, none led, he hit the 3rd winner once, would have been 18-19

Is well worth a look, one of my favourite pieces of You Tube gold. The best Vic driver I have seen in my time, beautiful hands. Good post.

Markovina

AbbysAce said:

Markovina said:

That small club that Bob alludes to - that he is a member of - driven a winner at The Royal Melbourne Showgrounds - Moonee Valley - and Melton - the 3 Melb metropolitan Trotting tracks 

Of the ones still alive - well Brian Gath certainly - i think John Caldow maybe - Noel Shinn definitely ticks the 1st 2 boxes - still has the odd drive - his son Chris does most of the driving - youd reckon Noel would have driven the odd winner at Melton . Geoff Webster - did he win a race at the Showgrounds - hes old enough - youd think when he was the premier SA driver - youd think he maybe came accross for a heat of a Victorian Oaks or something like that . The  Justice bros - Lance had Whirley Dream i think when the Showgrounds was just about closing - so both Lance and John are maybes 

I cant think of any others tho - i dont think Chris Alford had started when the Showgrounds had finished  - Chris Lang would be a chance - he was about 2 yrs younger than Gavin - so he may have driven a winner at the Showgrounds when still a teenager 

Gavin definately drove at the showgrounds, he drove a treble there  december 22 1979, vision on you tube, well worth a look, none led, he hit the 3rd winner once, would have been 18-19

I take your point - and its tragic that Gavin isnt still with us - but i was mentioning drivers who are still alive - who drove winners at all 3 Melb metro tracks - and Gavins younger brother Chris - about 2 years younger than Gavin  a very good horseman - mainly concentrates on the Trotters - he may have driven a winner at the Melb showgrounds when he was 16-18 years of age 

And re Bob K - still driving in his 80s - im pretty sure ( but i will certainly be corrected if im not right ) it was Graeme Lang - who took the Trotting authorities to the Supreme Court - because what happened way back then  - is they brought in a rule - that once you hit 65 that was it - you wernt allowed to drive in races anymore - and some of those guys were on the sideline for a year or 2  -  and then G A Lang  went to court - and won - and that rule was deemed unlawfull - and they were allowed to drive again

savethegame

Remember reading Maurice Holmes forced to retire at 65 he won the NZ premiership in his final season and won four races on his final day.

Known as the Maestro won 18 leading driver titles ---The writer said put that in your pipe and smoke it on his final day

curmudgeon

AC Lewis would be a chance to have driven a winner at all 3 venues

JayJay

Definitely at the Showgrounds (eg Carclew)  and definitely at the Valley (eg Village Kid), sent out the carrier pigeon re Melton,will have an answer in the am. Current thinking is a no.

Gilgamesh

R6 no5 Sagatious to snag and finish all over the top of them. 60w 40plc.

freodockers

Raging Romeo EW
Destined To Rule if it doesn’t win tonight it will never win another race.

JayJay

JayJay said:

Definitely at the Showgrounds (eg Carclew)  and definitely at the Valley (eg Village Kid), sent out the carrier pigeon re Melton,will have an answer in the am. Current thinking is a no.

Thanks to Mark Lewis, confirmed tonight, it is a no. Has run 2nd there. I told him he still has time to rectify, an ageless ace of the sulky.

Gilgamesh

Hard to believe Hurricane Harley is (at least according to the market) a live chance in a Hunter Cup.

Just shows how different horses can perform in different environments. Just did not fire a shot over hear.

Markovina

I know its easy to get sucked in with some horses - declaring that they are the next big thing - but Captain Ravishing is the most exciting pacer in the last decade in my opinion - and its not some ready made toy brought in from New Zealand 

2 starts ago in the Crown final - over 11 furlongs and breezing went that sensational time of 1.51 - and then tonight again sensational time 1st up - had a torrid run but just destroyed a decent field 

What i find surprising lately - is some of these sensational horses are being thrown by very ordinary mares - in its case Ravisng Girl - 9 very low class wins out of 45 starts - its last start in a race 7 years - ago - beaten 50 metres at Penrith at 25-1 in slow time - beaten 79 metres at Bankstown if you dont mind

But it is the mother of a sensational horse 

freodockers

Captain Ravishing very impressive however not sure about the depth of that field. Outside winner best run int the race was Turnbull horse. Wasn’t far off making up ground on winner 4 wide last 400.
Either way most of those wouldn’t have made nugget field imo.
As for breeding of winner the great grand dam was A class. Skipped a generation, bit like mellennials.

JayJay

Agree Freo, breeding of Captain Ravishing goes very deep. Dam Ravishing Girl only a modest record 9 wins and 1.57.1 as listed above but she has only had 3 foals of racing age, first one was Lets Get Rockin, 1.54.1 and $175k, then Captain Ravishing, and all 3 have gone under 1.56. 2nd Dam Ravaged is a gem, 8 winners, 5 in 1.57, 2 in 1.55. She is by Safely Kept out of a Thor Hanover mare, royal bloodlines and dozens of quality winners throughout the pedigree. Captain Ravishing is no accident, bred on the  golden cross of Mach Three (Direct Scooter) over an Artsplace mare, double bonus of 4x4 Artsplace  and 5x5 Abercrombie . Whoever decided to breed him on these lines had their ducks lined up and Sloy's have been consistently doing the business for decades.

Markovina

Ravushing Girl - Ravaged and its mother Calopylla - they have become top broodmares - but the 3 of them were shocking pacers - with terrible race records

Ravaged  it was gioing about 2.5 mile rate at Fairfield of all places at double figure odds  - that was about its average mile rate 2.4 to 2.5 - so it was no good whatsoever 

And its mother Calopylla - well it takes the cake - one - 1 race - beat a star studed  field at Albury - going a slick 2.7 - and very attractive prizemoney  a 2 k race in total stake 

freodockers

David Moran Hon Bay Hunter Cup.
Don’t think I’ve ever seen a horse go from near last to 3 wide to sprint lane and win. Probably never will again. Terrific drive and great race.

freodockers

Markovina said:

I know its easy to get sucked in with some horses - declaring that they are the next big thing - but Captain Ravishing is the most exciting pacer in the last decade in my opinion - and its not some ready made toy brought in from New Zealand 

2 starts ago in the Crown final - over 11 furlongs and breezing went that sensational time of 1.51 - and then tonight again sensational time 1st up - had a torrid run but just destroyed a decent field 

What i find surprising lately - is some of these sensational horses are being thrown by very ordinary mares - in its case Ravisng Girl - 9 very low class wins out of 45 starts - its last start in a race 7 years - ago - beaten 50 metres at Penrith at 25-1 in slow time - beaten 79 metres at Bankstown if you dont mind

But it is the mother of a sensational horse 

Capt Rav next start Chariots in two weeks.
Something to look forward to.

Markovina

freodockers said:

Markovina said:

I know its easy to get sucked in with some horses - declaring that they are the next big thing - but Captain Ravishing is the most exciting pacer in the last decade in my opinion - and its not some ready made toy brought in from New Zealand 

2 starts ago in the Crown final - over 11 furlongs and breezing went that sensational time of 1.51 - and then tonight again sensational time 1st up - had a torrid run but just destroyed a decent field 

What i find surprising lately - is some of these sensational horses are being thrown by very ordinary mares - in its case Ravisng Girl - 9 very low class wins out of 45 starts - its last start in a race 7 years - ago - beaten 50 metres at Penrith at 25-1 in slow time - beaten 79 metres at Bankstown if you dont mind

But it is the mother of a sensational horse 

Capt Rav next start Chariots in two weeks.
Something to look forward to.

Capt Ravishing - Taiba - one brother owns it - and the other brother use to train it 

When he trained it - it was an ok horse but nothing like it is now - since Emma Stewart took it over 

The owner Brother when it went 1.51 breezing at Melton over 2100 - unbelievable time - said - theres a few rumours - that im going to send it back to my brother to train 

He then said - there is no chance in that happening - simply because his brother didnt have the top class horses  that Emma has got to work his horse alongside in training 

He put down the enormous improvement down to that - the athletics theory - and i did running as a young bloke - if you train with higher class athletes - it will push you to the absolute limit - youve got to have the ability of course - but that may be the key to Emmas success - shes got so many top class horses to work them with 

2lifetimewinners

Any news on the track at Pinjarra today?
Hear there is a new member of staff down there and wondering if he has stuffed it up yet haha

Markovina

Ive got little interest in GP - but this afternoon i read Ken  Casellas review in harness link re Frid night meeting at GP - and you give that 1000 out of 1000 - plenty of content - snip bits from trainers and drivers - and video replays - thats what you call a 1st class review 

I really enjoy the interesting articles on harness racing - and you see the circumstances - call it luck - call it what you like -but how certain owners and trainers  end up with certain horses 

Ray Jones said he had agreed with a breeder to buy a yearling - the price everything was settled -and he went out to that property to get it - when he got their he saw the horse - but he saw another horse in another paddock - and he didnt have his ducks lined up on the breeding or anything - he simply used the Bart Cummings philosphy of having an eye for a good  horse - and  he liked that horse better - so he switched and bought it - and it just happens to be Lavro Joe 

And i read today how another trainer ended up getting a horse Mark Yole - inTassie - Bens brother 

He went to pick up a horse from an owner/breeder - i think he had a double horse float - any how this young horse just point blank refused to load - and the owner bloke said - look i will load this old horse which had been in the paddock for 12 mths - and that might coax the younger one - but it still refused to load 

So the owner said to Mark - look just take this old horse and see if you can get it going for us again - and yesterday that horse  Buster William at Carrick ( and they were decent horses - Hickstead ex Vic/NSW was in  the FFA ) won the stand start pacing cup their - began like a rocket off the back mark ( 25-1 and i didnt have a cracker on it ) got shuffled back - and then sprinted brilliantly to win

There is often a good/quirky story - how a trainer will end up with a certain horse

freodockers

Colin Joss Satinover fastest runner ????‍♀️ n the paddock, half mad to go with it.
FRK also bought out of paddock happy to be corrected on that one.

freodockers

FRK Northerly don’t know what happened there.

Markovina

freodockers said:

FRK Northerly don’t know what happened there.

I read many years ago how that happened

The owner/breeder bloke - and he bred plenty of horses - and he knew someone - and this is when FRK had just started out as a gallops  trainer - or in the 1st few years - and the bloke kept saying to the owner/breeder bloke - why dont you give ( send  some of your young horse ) to FRK - he is a top horseman 

And thus he did start sending some horses to FRK 

JayJay

The "owner/breeder" bloke was of course Neville Duncan and the shared acquaintance was Wagin Farmer Geoff Ward who supplied the grain to Duncan's Oakland Park Stud. Ward had raced a lot of pacers, with great success with both Kersley and Coulson (Indian Chant and Color Glo are two that stand out). Duncan had a filly whose pedigree wasn't suffice to get any money at the Yearling Sale and Ward suggested giving Fred a go. The filly was Make Mine Cherries who was an immediate success. Subsequent to that, any horses deemed unsuitable for the big sales headed Kersley's way. Northerly had offset knees as a yearling and along with another Serheed, they were offered to Kersley and Ward, Duncan keeping 50%. Ward didn't like the look of Northerly and took 50% of the  other one, leaving Fred with 50% of Northerly. Serheeds averaged $18,000 at the sale, so Fred got his 50% for 9 grand. Fred had already trained a lot of winners prior to this happening including Time Frame, Seattle Dancer, Broadwalk Lady, Play The Whistle etc etc.

Markovina

Interested how WA stacks up against Qld re breeding bonus situation

I read what Kody Charles said last week on the AHR site - it was listed as an advertisement - but he said in WA - theres 2 times 225k finals both sex plus another 2 times 125k finals so thats pretty hard to beat

2 weeks ago i was looking at the Qbred sale -and it said 2 times 150k finals - same again as3 year olds and 76k as 4 yr old 

But what caught my eye were  the QBRED life bonuses 

$14000 1st win bonus   $7500  2nd win bonus $3000 3rd win bonus- and a  $1000 bonus  for any race it wins where the race is worth more than 4.5k

I would be interested how that stacks up against WA -  like there was a 2 year old fillies race at Narrogin last night

Rocket_Reign

Markovina said:

Interested how WA stacks up against Qld re breeding bonus situation

I read what Kody Charles said last week on the AHR site - it was listed as an advertisement - but he said in WA - theres 2 times 225k finals both sex plus another 2 times 125k finals so thats pretty hard to beat

2 weeks ago i was looking at the Qbred sale -and it said 2 times 150k finals - same again as3 year olds and 76k as 4 yr old 

But what caught my eye were  the QBRED life bonuses 

$14000 1st win bonus   $7500  2nd win bonus $3000 3rd win bonus- and a  $1000 bonus  for any race it wins where the race is worth more than 4.5k

I would be interested how that stacks up against WA -  like there was a 2 year old fillies race at Narrogin last night

Our bonuses are brilliant I don’t have exact figures but it’s something like 2500$ on top for every country win as a 2&3yo and a bit over 5k per metro win. It doubles if your sire is WA based, also get a 2k first win bonus regardless of age

JayJay

The first win bonus regardless of age is now $3k for owner and $3k for breeder. Link below for exact numbers on westbred and double westbred.

https://www.rwwa.com.au/harness-hub/westbred/

Markovina

Boy those Bunbury quinella pools are horrendous $500 to $700 a race - that one where the $1.10 thing missed out - quin paid massive unders 

And Race 1 - the quin pool was $123 

WA Trots punters dont like their Quinellas - and unfortunately if you do you are wasting your time