G.P. FRI; 6/1/2017Harness & Greyhounds

savethegame

Borrow the boxes from Cannington again; 5 races on card with 8 runners.Hope people that normally don't get cheque  get one. Hard to get excited about the punt ,Freo cup doesn't seem the same not being a stand.

Offthebit

The freo cup not being a stand is a disgrace. The freo cup has become a $300k lead up race to the pacing cup.

Chariotsonfire

Races 9 and 10 split with a $500 differential.

Not one horse in the 2nd division could finish in first four in 1st division.

Stakes split should be at least $19500 and $17000.

Before anyone goes on about taking a life time penalty the point is that any horse from the 2nd division would not be taking any penalty in the 1st division.

I know if I owned any horse in the 2nd division I would be more than happy to race for $17000 with a chance of getting a winning cheque.

Browny123

You could buy the entire field for 17k

curmudgeon

Chariotsonfire said:

Races 9 and 10 split with a $500 differential.

Not one horse in the 2nd division could finish in first four in 1st division.

Stakes split should be at least $19500 and $17000.

Before anyone goes on about taking a life time penalty the point is that any horse from the 2nd division would not be taking any penalty in the 1st division.

I know if I owned any horse in the 2nd division I would be more than happy to race for $17000 with a chance of getting a winning cheque.

Ok ....tip your first four in each division......mile rate ....and SP. Sounds like it is a simple thing. Also what will be the turnover differential ? btw....Lukey  & Its Nevertheless on best form would be a huge chance in the first division.

savethegame

Probably could.;.... Gee could forgive you for thinking your are watching a meeting across the ditch;.....61n.z.prefix 27 aussie bred........ Left the westbred race alone doing the figures, another 40 have arrived in australia in dec...... 8 bettors delights and so on.... The only real figures have full year break down is in year 98-99  ....      871 imported.   ...   647 started.    ....   130 won no stakemoney at all..... 247 won under5k.....70 won between 10k-15k .....49 won  between  15K-20K.... 80 won over 20k plus   the break down  was  517 horses won  1895 races for  6,046,270. the averge for 871 was  $6,941.75  go the aussies.   (these figures  don't include grand circuit horses and classic ones  that were cleared to race in aus  and cleared to go back home  in that year).wonder why they say his  a another quinny  this one bro  he earnt   $4,500,000. 

savethegame

So the crab that wins the last will  goes past at least  approx. 400 hundred of these superstars factoring allowance for stakemoney increase  from then to now   which is nearly negated by transport cost and paperwork  not even considering what these horse have already won  there is three  kiwis  in the last...... They are to dear.

Chariotsonfire

Curmudgeon you are entitled to your opinion as I am.

The point I am trying to make is If I owned Its Nevertheless I would much rather be in Division 2 racing for $17000 than in Division 1 racing for $19500 with little chance of earning.

savethegame

The west bred 5-9  should be 25,000 stake. We have to make every attempt to kick start our breeding industry.  Think  things are starting to turn again   numbers  I am hearing re mares  going to bulls like  follow the stars are very good  take a bow who was responsible for the breeding credits,early days positive.

Browny123

Well said savethegame..I for one go to the sales every year looking for a westbred horse..and would hope the powers to be keep boosting the scheme year after year.

curmudgeon

savethegame said:

The west bred 5-9  should be 25,000 stake. We have to make every attempt to kick start our breeding industry.  Think  things are starting to turn again   numbers  I am hearing re mares  going to bulls like  follow the stars are very good  take a bow who was responsible for the breeding credits,early days positive.

Agreed . As of last Monday FTS had covered 139 mares with enquiries continuing. For too long revolving door stables have decimated the local breeding industry with imports from NZ designed to return investment quickly ( apart from the standouts I doubt the economies of scale are that effective).The Westbred Dodolicious for instance would be Bonds most profitable outlay  to return horse. A sire such as Rich and Spoilt offered WA breeders a cost effective entry into the game with massive chances of early return for years.....however and very unfortunately.... his numbers slipped due to the predilection for imports and their promise of an even more rapid time scale in return on outlay.

People blinded by the suffix NZ and the oily charms of agents have ignored and denigrated Aus bred stock all the while having a brain dead outlook on growth of the racetrack products future.

I would hate to guess the fate of most of the NZ yearling crop from year to year though....only the promising ones cross the Tasman and they are the tip of the iceberg.

The NZ breeding myth has latterly been exploded by Mark Purdon...one of their own.

Sometimes this industry is its own worst enemy

savethegame

Whats more there should be a 5-9 c. class every Friday worth 25,000 for westbreds only. You         you only take   a "c" penalty  but you can only  win one in a 12mth period. ....With a sealing of 30,000 dollars earnt  i.e for people that think I will only run places .make it a incentive to shop local.Race title.....  THE OURS ALONE. The same 12mth.period embargo starts once you have earnt 30k. ....Thewestbreds  that miss a start re points or poor form,have mo option. once your class has reached  c10. ....THE OURS ALONE. is not a option.

curmudgeon

Chariotsonfire said:

Curmudgeon you are entitled to your opinion as I am.

The point I am trying to make is If I owned Its Nevertheless I would much rather be in Division 2 racing for $17000 than in Division 1 racing for $19500 with little chance of earning.

Opinions are coloured by many variables and personal preferences Chariots but of course they are grist for the discussion mill and it does no harm to have them out in the open for debate.

If I owned Its Nevertheless I would be even more pleased that it is racing for 18 K with barrier 1 and a chance for a return consistent with cost vs penalty to those horses racing in the other MO.

The turnover for these races will be interesting being successive races.....the second division may actually return more to the industry than the first. There was only a 10k differential last week when one was race two and the other race nine....punters care less about perceived field quality than they do about the relative odds of their choice within any given field.

Markovina

I agree with the comments - re protecting and enhancing and rewarding locally bred horses

I can remember in NSW many years ago they had a fantastic Sires Stakes programme - i think for 2  3 and 4 year old locally bred horses  - a heap of bred and butter races with very good prizemoney for those individual races - and also lucrative final each years - for each age group .

They had a fantastic sponsor for many years with that format - CUB - Carlton and United Breweries - who poured a fortune into NSW Trotting

Good luck to the Halls and the Bonds - their method is successful - its proven - but its the easy way and also the lazy way - all the money is going out of the country and rat shiit for thje Balance of Payments as well

Id love some top notch Australian  bred horses to dominate ( alah Popular and Gammalite ) and people who take the punt and buy locally bred yearlings to be richly rewarded - alah the NSW Sires Stakes programme - which the Halls and the Bonds would be shut out of

Offthebit

Not convinced the bond method is a proven one. Pays massive overs for horses and none of them win the big prize money races.......

JayJay

Agree, they have had some "good" horses, a few that promised a lot but never quite delivered (injuries) and to be fair an awful lot of winners but not knowing what they pay for a going type from NZ, couldn't really comment as to whether its a success of not. When I last spoke to Kevin Gartrell at Inters time, I asked him how many horse they owned and said he didn't know but he thought 6 or 7 were in tonight.
Surprised when I was looking up Alford, Lang and Lewis that Ryan Warwick is Australia's leading driver this season with 80 wins, Alford was on 70 and Lewis on 66.

Browny123

Team bond will take 8 of these no imports to kelkerberin on a Sunday..win 4 or 5 ,and declare themselves as gurus..but race against good trainers and horses over the carnivals,they are pretty plain

JayJay

yep, that annoys me....Albany the same...how can the locals/battlers compete? I know its a free market, good placement by them, getting a return but.....maybe fair enough for the $30k Country Cups but still doesn't sit well with me.

Chariotsonfire

Albany and Kellerberrin wanted equal stakes with Bunbury, Pinjarra etc now the locals pay the penalty.

JayJay

Valid point Chariots, they can't even compete for the 3k RO or R2 and better races without being bloused out by something coming back in assessment under this so called joke of a handicapping system.

curmudgeon

I served with Bondy on the GMTC committee many moons ago. He was buying horses from NSW and racing them in Kalgoorlie then ....so his modus operandi hasn't changed much just the scale and investment.

He is no fly by nighter so more power to him. The name of the game is to win the races.

The equalisers are the stakemoney distribution rationale and handicapping conditions ...its not rocket science. Horse racing codes are founded on handicapping principles to even up the competition on track. 

I find it amusing that proponents of narrow stake distribution bands can feel uncomfortable with the rampant success of any stable..... anywhere. I thought this was the dog eat dog doctrine applauded by that train of thought.

Markovina

Just a few points on protecting  localised racing - it cant happen in WA  geographically - but in NSW where there are separate regions  they do protect the locals

With the Riverina ( Wagga Albury Junee LeetonTemora etc ) and another region say Bathurst/Dubbo Parkes/Blayney - you will often see races - where the conditions are - horse must be stabled and had its last 4 starts - outside 100 kilometres from the metropolitan area  - so no big  metro stable can send a truckload of horses to a meeting - and the prizemoney is still good 6-7k per race

One area - where the locals must be filthy about being raided by an interstate visitor - is Tamworth- in Northern NSW - the Wiedamans Julie and Lola ( who are based in South East Qld )-send a truckload of their horses - who have very little success at Albion Park  - but absolutely dominate at Tamworth - its not uncommon - for the Weidamans to win between 2-4 races at each Tamworth meeting - the New England locals must love that

savethegame

I see it this way bond's & hall"s  can go start where they like kalg.albany....But the moment any stable has more than one runner in a race I need to be sure there not driving one runner to the advantage of its stablemate & in   the  interim destroying  any    another runners chances. ..Stewards need the power .to implement.odm penaltys  once it has become obivious as in the case  a natural leader at say previous 3sts is stood on its head to let stablemate lead so penaltys   like  up to 3 runs  odm.....might make them think.....We can fix the whips issue but this one going to take a bit of fixing  up.,Esp fav. punters backing odds-on horses  go  thank god  its held the lead  and then it    hands up to 5/1  stablemates and just doesn't quite run them down ....     funny that....... Looking for rule changes as in the city multiple runners is the norm.Hope leading stables can put ideas forward to.... savethe game.