Go back to punting school those who were on KansasWest Australian Racing

naw

How anyone backed this is beyond me

G-Mac

Can I accrue a HECS debt at this school?

mailman505

Best last 600m in race beaten 2 lengths given no hope from were it was the comments here are so breathtakingly dumb figures dont lie call me what u like facts are facts.

mailman505

I wont bother telling u what it clocked its last 400 and 200 in that would make your comment even more silly.

BC4E

Where did it run?

Answers all arguments.

If they don't pay a dividend, they are a bad bet. 

mailman505

Rubbish i if the sectional time beats home anything else in race and the beaten time is less from the winner that means it was a poor judged ride not a bad bet it means the timing is off.If u are going to have a go please do your home work.

naw

I know how it got beat mythman I want to know how you decided to back the money muncher in the first place?

Gilgamesh

mailman505 said:

Rubbish i if the sectional time beats home anything else in race and the beaten time is less from the winner that means it was a poor judged ride not a bad bet it means the timing is off.If u are going to have a go please do your home work.

Mailman you have constantly been rattling on about sectional times the last month, particularly saxy, grace. You are only choosing to use the sectional times that suit you though! Did you ever think that if these horses ran quicker earlier sectionals they might not be able to run home so quickly, more simply the reason they are running home quicker than anything else in the race is because they have done nothing early! The most important time is the overal time because that tells you were they finished and everything you have been ranting about has not finished with as good an overall time as the winner! The time from out of the gate till the 600 is a sectional time too.

I love a good rant and a good jockey dig but if a horse is getting back over and over again and not showing that it can get over them from back there then it has been my finding that a lot of the time they wont finish off when riden closer.

Looking at Saxy Grace, it wasn't as though they flew home on sat, yes her closing sectionals were faster than the others but if her sectionals from the week before were that good you would have thought she could get over the top of them this week.

It will be interesting to see how she goes when she is ridden more aggressively but in the meantime it might pay to cool your gets on these horses who show "good sectional times" when they are flashing late and start backing some of those with "good sectional times" who are actually showing the early speed to put themselves into the race!

carey

nice commentary.

an interesting thing that i have found is......
riders tend to place the horse about the same distance behind the leader, regardless of if the pace is fast or slow.
trainer instruction maybe, but still not very clever if you put it way back where, when they are walking the same as when they are flying.
so whichever way you look at it, it comes back to riders not taking initiative.
there is one in particular that gives me the willies, because he is supposed to be so good over there!!!

Radman

So how does jock know before the race what the pace will be? So they get back to last as instructed, then realise the pace is slow, then make a sustained early run from the back and hope their horse is Kingston Town?

Mailman is right, we all have NFI on this site (mostly him). Would love to see the 'experts' on this forum ride in a race. I'd be lining up my pies on the fence ready.

The_Bull

Carey is on the money. Most riders seem to go into races with a preconceived notion of how far off the leader they should be if the race is run according to the way they think it should be run. Unfortunately, more times than not the race isn't run to plan and riders seem unable to adjust there tactics. There are a few exceptions, Knucks seems to be reading the speed of races quite well atm.

carey

it would be obvious pretty quickly what type of pace is going to transpire.
not to mention they should already have a fair idea, if they did their homework beforehand.

one does not need to be able to ride to know that others can't judge pace, or do anything to help their mount overcome it.
all that is needed is data.  :-*
it's an irrelevant argument anyway.

The_Bull

Spoken like someone who has never ridden in a race :-*

The other side of the coin is having to ride to trainers instruction. Ad lib and get the nag beaten, and you lose the ride.

mailman505

I dont have time to explain this any more and besides most in here dont get it or dont want to get it and thats fine each to own but its not hard to work out as carey as said with data if horse is good enough but has simply been ridden so far outside metrics its staging.If u cant see that with saxy grace then i cant give u a better eg the ride on the 7th was so bad and out side metrics u wonder if the bloke was trying.I fine it interesting thatt on the same day back on the 7th the stable mate was back their with saxy grace but took off at 1000m and kept going to win u can only make those moves if the filed is walking.So the question would be y did saxy grace not move also if u look at the sectional time it reeled off and its overall time from winner u can see it was a length better run meaning it had 3 lengths of unused energy i hope that give u some idea of the rubbish i am talking about and u wonder y i have no time for the stewards in perth at times thats a clear one that should have been asked about.So A they have no issue or be they have no idea mmmm i let u be judge.

mailman505

Do your self a favour dont ride to waht they say because i can tell u most have no idea u win more races if u just rode to the pace of a race.

The_Bull

Most can't judge the speed of a race. Most have no idea how fast / slow they are going. If you think they are all good judges of pace you are way off the mark.

carey

i suspect the best riders just nod their heads as their instructions are given, but were not listening to them.
probably why piggott was so good.

i have often pondered why trainers know where the horse should be placed, better than a good rider would.

The_Bull

Are you comparing Lester Piggott to riders in WA?

carey

piggott was hearing impaired, so he probably missed most of his instructions anyway.

i suspect any rider is only as good as his competition is.
what is in wa might not be too good, but if their peers were high standard then i suspect they would improve with the better competition.

BC4E

I don't know why I am wasting my time on an oxygen thief, but I'm a bit bored at work at the moment, so here goes.

Races aren't run and won on sectional times..... end of story. They are a guide and a guide only.

Unless you have a feel for the industry and a feel for racing, you are wasting your time.

But keep up the good work mailman, your continual backing of losers means those of us who back winners are getting better dividends

DarkTarget

Which horse would you logically expect to be able to have the fastest 600 of any race, those closer to the front or back of the field?

Logically, the further you are to the front you are the more energy you have expended, and the further you are to the rear the less you have expended. So having the fastest 600 when last at that point like Kansas was isn't unexpected, its EXpected.

Gilgamesh

So Mad Brad who had been running on like a train was ridden on speed today and failed to run on while a horse who was ridden off the speed ran over the top of them, jist wondering what the sectionals experts opinions were.

Gilgamesh

Also Saxy Grace who is clwarly lengths better than them failed to run a place again? Too far back?

thefalcon

wonder if its starting in the bunbury /Pinjarra cups?